Another drummer, another rant

[sevenyearsdown]

I guess I haven't ranted enough about this yet so here goes.....

We recently started working with a new drummer. The guy was aces at the audition - learned the songs we gave him, and was super positive. We gave him the gig pretty much on the spot (made him wait it out for a day actually - but I'm pretty sure he already knew).

So we gave him a disc with 40 or 50 of our tunes on it from rehearsal recordings and told him to have at it (85% cover songs). Second rehearsal comes - he's completely unprepared and hasn't learned anything off the list. Total waste of time. The guitar player and I talk and come up with one more rehearsal, then we'll evaluate the situation.

Fast forward two weeks. To rehearsal number 3. Aside from about a million other issues that I don't have the time to bore someone with - he comes in better prepared....sort of. He decides that he doesn't want to play anything like our original drummer, and makes no bones about how he thinks some of his beats didn't work (even though mostly just easy cover stuff).

For example, instead of hitting snares on 2 & 4, he changes to 1 & 3. Or he plays toms instead snares and vice versa for tunes. Or he would play double hits on the snares instead the high-hats. Then I ask him to correct one very particular part in a song that I play a very specific bass fill for that locks in to the drums. His answer is, "whelp I was playing along there to the vocals". He made comments relative to drum beats based of the vocal melodies on more than one occassion. Ummm.....Drums locking into the vocals, sorry but that doesn't work for me as a bass player.

We're playing cover tunes in bars dude, no need to reinvent the wheel. Sometimes people actually want to hear the original drum and bass lines.....go figure.

He got the boot by the end of the night.

Winter is gonna suck if I'm not gigging.

[JustDavid]

Who came 2nd in the auditions? Call them.

[bamabass]

I hear ya....we had lead singer/rythem/song writer/band leader issues....we had a whole summer booked...now he is in Rehab and I am not playing...winters not playing sucks!

[sevenyearsdown]

Originally Posted by JustDavid

Who came 2nd in the auditions? Call them.

We only auditioned two guys, and the other guy couldn't play very well. Problem for us was that the guy we picked was right on for the audition, and then changed his whole approach after he got the gig. We are back to placing ads and auditioning poeple again.

The guy we booted isn't terrible, just wont play stuff as it's laid out. It's not like I care what I guy does with fills and some of flair stuff, but you have toplay the basics correctly.

I'm still quite surprised every time I play with a guy who has 20+ years experience and sucks. How does that happen?

[Stinsok]

He thought he was Keith Moon....

[sevenyearsdown]

Another thing that sucks for me is I have people beating down my door to play with them since I started upright bass. I'm not even that good, it's just that aren't very many guys doing it, so it's kind of premium to get one. I'm totally loyal to my guitarist/ singer, but I could have another gig in five minutes if I wanted to. We built our little band together though, and I'm not prepared to walk away from a fucntioning band that has established venues, a nice core group of fans, and not to mention a guy that I get long with so easilly.

[JustDavid]

Originally Posted by sevenyearsdown

We only auditioned two guys, and the other guy couldn't play very well. Problem for us was that the guy we picked was right on for the audition, and then changed his whole approach after he got the gig. We are back to placing ads and auditioning poeple again.

The guy we booted isn't terrible, just wont play stuff as it's laid out. It's not like I care what I guy does with fills and some of flair stuff, but you have toplay the basics correctly.

I'm still quite surprised every time I play with a guy who has 20+ years experience and sucks. How does that happen?

That sucks. Were it me with my own hindsight I'd set a goal for auditions to also come up with a "plan B" candidate.

We've gone through something vaguely similar & ended up losing a guitarist. One way to define the issue was that there's a big difference between 'playing well IN' & 'playing well WITH'. I'll spare the world the gory details, but said guitarist was not playing with the band in any way we could name, was 'doing his own thing' in several very noticeable ways, & continued doing so after numerous discussions. Good musician though, just not a good band member.

Unless your audition process clearly specified otherwise, I'd presume you were looking for someone to fit into your band. He did, so he can. He'd just rather do things his way, which isn't what you wanted. Next!

I'd have no problem with your drummer bringing his artistic take on the songs to the band for consideration. I have a large problem with surprise rescoring, especially live.

[sevenyearsdown]

Originally Posted by JustDavid

That sucks. Were it me with my own hindsight I'd set a goal for auditions to also come up with a "plan B" candidate.

We've gone through something vaguely similar & ended up losing a guitarist. One way to define the issue was that there's a big difference between 'playing well IN' & 'playing well WITH'. I'll spare the world the gory details, but said guitarist was not playing with the band in any way we could name, was 'doing his own thing' in several very noticeable ways, & continued doing so after numerous discussions. Good musician though, just not a good band member.

Unless your audition process clearly specified otherwise, I'd presume you were looking for someone to fit into your band. He did, so he can. He'd just rather do things his way, which isn't what you wanted. Next!

I'd have no problem with your drummer bringing his artistic take on the songs to the band for consideration. I have a large problem with surprise rescoring, especially live.

You hit the nail on the head.

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by sevenyearsdown

I guess I haven't ranted enough about this yet so here goes.....

We recently started working with a new drummer. The guy was aces at the audition - learned the songs we gave him, and was super positive.

Second rehearsal comes - he's completely unprepared and hasn't learned anything off the list. Total waste of time. The guitar player and I talk and come up with one more rehearsal, then we'll evaluate the situation.

Fast forward two weeks. To rehearsal number 3. Aside from about a million other issues that I don't have the time to bore someone with - he comes in better prepared....sort of.

Okay, if I'm reading this right, and all three of these rehearsals are with the same drummer, he went from "aces" to "unprepared" to "isn't playing much like the original and making some magoo alternate choices."

If he aced the audition, it shows he took time to listen to the originals and prepare. If he was unprepared at rehearsal #2, it shows, for whatever reason, he did not have the time to learn the material. If he was unprepared and winged it at rehearsal #3, it means that once again he did not have the time to learn faithful versions of the material and decided to improvise instead.

Now, IMHO, and only because he aced the audition, I'd have a heart-to-heart with this guy, ask him if he has the time to commit and learn faithful, accurate versions of the songs, and give him one more chance. Tell him you don't want improvisation. If he comes in and nails some material, you will have your answer. If he comes in and re-writes the percussion like the previous two rehearsals, you will know the band is a low priority for him, and it's time to stop wasting time and move on without him.

Good luck.

[sevenyearsdown]

We did have a talk with him after the second rehearsal. I made it very clear to him that on the songs we had slated for work that the original drum beats/bass lines etc were what was to be played.

He did work on stuff for the third rehearsal, just the way he wanted it. I'm typically the guy that dictates practice, and I stopped songs on more than one occassion to correct things. Problem is that I was met with resistance, or even worse defiance in most cases. It wasn't in a angry or hostile way. It's mostly him insisting that what the old guy did on tape wasn't good, even though it was for the most part played very closely to the original.

An example would be the intro to the Setzer song Let's Live it Up. The drummer plays a very basic snare beat over the guitar intro. This guy decided that it wasn't good, and played some combination of floor tom, kick, and something else that completely buried the guitar lick which is probably the most impressive "solo" part of the song.

And as I said earlier, there were several other factors that took place at the last rehearsal outisde of the drumming that sealed his fate.

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by sevenyearsdown

We did have a talk with him after the second rehearsal. I made it very clear to him that on the songs we had slated for work that the original drum beats/bass lines etc were what was to be played.

He did work on stuff for the third rehearsal, just the way he wanted it. I'm typically the guy that dictates practice, and I stopped songs on more than one occassion to correct things. Problem is that I was met with resistance, or even worse defiance in most cases. It wasn't in a angry or hostile way. It's mostly him insisting that what the old guy did on tape wasn't good, even though it was for the most part played very closely to the original.

An example would be the intro to the Setzer song Let's Live it Up. The drummer plays a very basic snare beat over the guitar intro. This guy decided that it wasn't good, and played some combination of floor tom, kick, and something else that completely buried the guitar lick which is probably the most impressive "solo" part of the song.

And as I said earlier, there were several other factors that took place at the last rehearsal outisde of the drumming that sealed his fate.

Cut him loose.

[sevenyearsdown]

Originally Posted by sevenyearsdown

He got the boot by the end of the night.

already did

[phatbass]

Originally Posted by sevenyearsdown

For example, instead of hitting snares on 2 & 4, he changes to 1 & 3. Or he plays toms instead snares and vice versa for tunes. Or he would play double hits on the snares instead the high-hats. Then I ask him to correct one very particular part in a song that I play a very specific bass fill for that locks in to the drums. His answer is, "whelp I was playing along there to the vocals". He made comments relative to drum beats based of the vocal melodies on more than one occassion. Ummm.....Drums locking into the vocals, sorry but that doesn't work for me as a bass player.

I call this "having an attack of the Gingers" (as in Ginger Baker). Unfortunately, most guys can't do it and still groove/pump a song along...

[JustDavid]

Originally Posted by phatbass

I call this "having an attack of the Gingers" (as in Ginger Baker). Unfortunately, most guys can't do it and still groove/pump a song along...

I don't think many on this site mind a drummer "Ginger'ing" (& I'll be stealing that term, thank you VERY much ). But doing so while neglecting the groove/pump . . . most of us already have guitarists for that role

Seriously though, this IS the Rhythm Section, & Job #1 is . . . well, if someone doesn't know it, then maybe bands just aren't their thing.

[Stumbo]

Gotta make it clear for the next drummer what you expect at the audition and all other rehearsals/gigs. How many times can you say at rehearsal "Play like you did at the audition". If you can't then we can't. See ya.