Double Bass Scale Length

[Bryan Pearson]

Ive found a Bass that I am consideing buying. It sounds and looks really good - my only concern is that it is a full scale-length - 43 and a half inches. Most of the basses I have played have a scale of about about 41 inches.

Do any members out there have experience playing a full-scale bass?

Cheers

Bryan

[Chasarms]

If you can make the two semitone span comfortably in half position, I would not worry too much. Everything else is going to be shifts anyway.

Is a 41 easier to play? Maybe, but if this bass has your sound, go for it. 43.5 is pretty big. There are ways to shorten the scale without compromising the bass too much. A false nut is pretty common.

[Bryan Pearson]

Thanks for that, Charles

[Andy Allen]

If you love the look, sound and feel of the bass go for it - I think you will adapt pretty easily.

Darek Oles, one of our Los Angeles superstars, has a big old bass with a great sound and the 44" string length doesn't seem to slow him down any.

Info from his site here.

Andy

[Racsen]

Originally Posted by Chasarms

There are ways to shorten the scale without compromising the bass too much. A false nut is pretty common.

What are these ways? What is false nut ? I have a 4/4 bass too

[armybass]

I learned to play on a 43 inch scale King and have had a difficult time going back to a 41 after ten years on the 43. I prefered teh 43 to be honest. My bass seemed to have a softer feel and I guess I really just got used to it.

[COUNT ZACULA]

Originally Posted by Racsen

What is false nut ?

This is a false nut. Hope that helps.
http://www.nortoncustoms.com/images/...in_scroll2.jpg

[Chasarms]

Originally Posted by Racsen

What are these ways? What is false nut ? I have a 4/4 bass too

If you look at the photo, you see that part of the fingerboard has been replaced with a long nut, that, in effect, shortens the string length by about an inch.

You can only go so far with that. I also know that some will move the bridge up just a touch. But, obviously, you aren't going to get much there.

None of these tweaks is going to make a huge difference. You might get a 1.25". Maybe 1.5".

The down side is the effect the changes have on the playing geometry. All of your nodes and reference points will be somewhere else on the neck.

[Sevitzky]

Brian,

I'd be careful. Not knowing what your hands look like on the instrument, the fact that you're used to a 41" would make me extremely wary. At 43" Can you comfortably play alternating octave F-naturals with 1 on the E-string and 4 the D-string? (i.e. Beethoven 5 scherzo?)

I bought a 42" instrument and shortened it with an extended nut. It changes the entire feel of where the notes sit (most notably if you have a D-neck, or a neck heel that sits exactly at a particular note)

My bass also has terrible wolfs since I shortened the length. The good thing is that I can return the length to original when I sell it. But the sound is completely different than what I thought I was buying.

Every bass will react differently, but I would make sure you know what the beast behaves like at 41" before you commit your money. (see if you can get someone to put a temporary extended nut on the f-board) IMO, longer string lengths sound louder, richer, and better. But if you give yourself tendonitis, the only sound you'll be able to make is "ouch."


Sev

[COUNT ZACULA]

If you want to keep your D-neck you need to move the bridge up about the same distance that you move the nut down.

[Doug Ring]

I'm no luthier, but I wouldn't have thought that was a good plan - doesn't the bridge have to sit close to the soundpost so that the tensions through the body are evenly handled?

[TSP]

I assume that the luthier fitting the false nut would also move the bridge and soundpost.

[Bryan Pearson]

Thanks everyone for your interest and comments

Bryan

[Sevitzky]

You can keep the D neck. But the bridge would have to move up further than the nut has to move down. Putting the bridge on the wrong spot of a bass changes everything about the sound. (If a luthier accidentally put a bridge a 1/4 inch off center - would you go back?)

Be wary of buying, until you've heard the new setup. It all depends on the bass.

[COUNT ZACULA]

Originally Posted by Sevitzky

You can keep the D neck. But the bridge would have to move up further than the nut has to move down.

Why?

[TSP]

Because a higher proportion of the scale is below the D than above it (the octave point being the middle of the scale); so to shorten the scale while keeping 'D' in the same place, the part below the 'D' (shortened by moving the bridge) needs to shorten by more than the part above the 'D' (shortened by moving the nut). I think.

Or you could just learn what the new note at the neck is - mines an E flat anyway :-)

[COUNT ZACULA]

Well Brent Norton did this job on my bass and as far as I can tell it looks like the nut came down about 3/4 of an inch and the bridge came up about a half. And I still have a D-neck. But I'm no expert, maybe we could get Brent or one of our resident luthiers to chime in on this.

[TSP]

As the D is 1/3rd of the way along the string, by my maths the 3/4-inch nut adjustment should have moved the D bridgeward by 1/2 an inch; and the 1/2-inch bridge adjustment should have moved it scrollward by 1/6th of an inch; leaving your D 1/3rd of an inch closer to the bridge than it was (or, to put it another way, leaving your neck note about 1/5th of a semitone flatter than it was, assuming it now has a 41" scale). Perhaps it's simply that this is a small enough difference to get used to - after all, every bass's neck feels different in any case.

I speak here mostly from maths and music theory, not practical bass knowledge - I'm only a beginner double bassist - so as you say, hopefully a luthier can tell us what's going on. It's quite possible that my logic is faulty.

[Chasarms]

Originally Posted by TSP

Perhaps it's simply that this is a small enough difference to get used to - after all, every bass's neck feels different in any case. . .

I think that is the real point. Every heal is going to slop a little differently and every player is going to reference the heal in a little different way.

I can't imagine that a 1/3" change in the position of that node would be a make or break the bass kind of thing. Especially if you didn't have a ton of time on it before it was altered.

The real test is how will it change the bass. Shorter scale means lower tension. If you move the bridge, you'll may move the sound post as well, etc.

As suggested, it would really be preferable to decide to buy the bass AFTER the modifications have been made.

[GriffithLea]

Originally Posted by COUNT ZACULA

This is a false nut. Hope that helps.
http://www.nortoncustoms.com/images/...in_scroll2.jpg

Check out those spikes on the tuner shafts! I'd hate to accidentally bang by head against the side of that pegbox.