trade up a Crate 15 to a SWR big ben 18?

[20Hz]

so lately I've been frustrated by the way my 15 handles the B on my bass. I have a Hartke 7000 that I'm running biamped with an Ampeg 410. (the crate has a JBL in it)The low end seems a little muddled and farty when I turn up, and doesn't seem to have a lot of information down in the low low end (below 40hz). I'm wondering if there would be a big benefit to trading the 15 for a good 18" cab? I've read good things about the Big Ben, and there's a used one local. I'm wondering if the jump in performance will be worth taking the money away from my new bass fund....thoughts?

[Webtroll]

The Ampeg 410 on it's own should work well with the low B, maybe it's your bass? Have you tried different strings? I'm not a fan of Crate cabs but the SWR stuff is pretty good, but to be fair a 15" shouldn't really have any trouble (unless it flat out sucks). My point here is that if it's not the speakers swapping one cab out isn't going to fix it. Is your bass active? If so try replacing the battery.

[20Hz]

I suppose my bass could be part of the problem. It's nothing special. Thing is I'm fairly happy with the frequency response throughout most of the range when I'm playing quietly through my rig or plugged into my mixer through headphones. It's only when I'm trying to play loud and clean with 2 guitars and drummers that I feel like the lowend is not up to the task. If I want to get enough volume in the low B-E range I end up having to set the crossover fairly low and balancing it towards the low cab, which just reduces my overall volume and muddies up the mids/highs. I want seriously deep lows but with definition, not just rumble..I realize that is hard to achieve..
It's possible that I need to spend more time playing around with EQing, but I still feel that the 15 is the weak link in my rig right now. Maybe it's partly just GAS..

[santucci218]

go try the 18 out somewhere. Nobody is a better judge than personal experience.

[azwhofan]

I used to use a Big Ben and a Hartke 210XL powered by a SWR Bass 350. it gave me all the bottom end I needed. it also projected well into the audience. The Big Ben is not what I would call a short-throw speaker.

[billfitzmaurice]

In this case size doesn't count, quality does. A well engineered cab loaded with a twelve can work better than a marginal cab loaded with a fifteen or even an eighteen. Try before you buy.

[20Hz]

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

In this case size doesn't count, quality does. A well engineered cab loaded with a twelve can work better than a marginal cab loaded with a fifteen or even an eighteen. Try before you buy.

makes sense, and I'm planning on trying it out... I'm just not sure they'll dig me turning it up loud enough to judge the performance at the kind of volumes I'm looking for.

[Webtroll]

Az makes a good point; you're not going to stand in front of that 18" and get a feel for what it sounds like in the audience. I'm sure it's a nice cab, hell I'd like one to put under my current SWR cabs, I'm just not sure it's going to give you what you're looking for. Unless it's GAS relief.

[greenboy]

What's the dimensions on your Crate 115 cab? Or got a picture? You could reload it with a neo Kappalite 3015LF that would not only shave weight, but would beat the alternatives considerably as a subwoofer-type... And given most common 115 cab tunings you probably wouldn't even have to mess with retuning the cab to get good performance as the 3015LF is pretty happy with most common tunings as long as the cab isn't dinky for a 15.

[20Hz]

here's the cab. It's a BE-15L. Would a better driver make that much of a difference? I thought cabinet design was pretty important for reproducing low stuff..no?

Edit--

actually I looked up the specs for the JBL(M151-8) and they seem as good or maybe better than the kappalite,
(granted I'm not an expert in reading speaker specs)


Freq response JBL- 40-5KHz Kappa 40-1.5KHz
Sensitivity JBL -102db Kappa 99.8db

[greenboy]

Yo 20 -

Is that rear-ported then? What's the approximate dimensions?

[agreatheight]

Originally Posted by azwhofan

I used to use a Big Ben and a Hartke 210XL powered by a SWR Bass 350. it gave me all the bottom end I needed. it also projected well into the audience. The Big Ben is not what I would call a short-throw speaker.

This is very true - I run a Harkte 410XL & a SWR Big Ben powered by an SWR Bass 350 (crazy similar!) and it throws bass pretty far! It sounds awesome and is a great cab (my favorite 18 out of any I have played), but on small stages I don't hear the Big Ben near as much as I hear the 410.

Remember though, this is how the physics work. Low end takes distance to form, for the waves to come together. So it's not the Big Ben specifically - I run a good deal of low end through my system and I have had this problem with other rigs, too.

Best of luck!

[20Hz]

Originally Posted by greenboy

Yo 20 -

Is that rear-ported then? What's the approximate dimensions?

yep rear ported,

24"x18.5"x16"D

[20Hz]

Originally Posted by agreatheight

Remember though, this is how the physics work. Low end takes distance to form, for the waves to come together. So it's not the Big Ben specifically - I run a good deal of low end through my system and I have had this problem with other rigs, too.

Best of luck!

heh isn't this self-evident to anyone who's played bass live on stage? If you stand close enough to your rig you can hardly hear the low notes, just feel them.

I think I'm going to drag my amp down there and see what it sounds like. First I'm going to spend an hour doing every possible EQ/crossover combo on my amp to make sure I'm not just being an idiot..

[greenboy]

Originally Posted by 20Hz

yep rear ported,

24"x18.5"x16"D

Yeah, that's pretty much too small for ANY 15" woofer that's halfways sensitive and can actually make low frequencies.

[greenboy]

Originally Posted by agreatheight

Remember though, this is how the physics work. Low end takes distance to form, for the waves to come together.

For a guy who invokes physics into the discussion perhaps you need a refresher course on sound waves and such. Here's how a wave travels:



Notice how the wave does not only exist once it is say 30 feet out, but that it actually travels from its source to all points outward? There is no place where the waves are out of focus.

Here's some reading from a basic PHYSICS tutorial

[Fendersaurus]

you need to look at the low frequency a cab can produce. You need a cab that can put out 32hz which is where the B string is at. You dont need a 15" or 18" for this. Cabs like the ampeg svt 410hlf can go down to that frequency as it is made for multi stringed bassists. I've also noticed with a lot of 5 strings the tone of the B string never sounds right compared to the other four strings.

[greenboy]

Originally Posted by Fendersaurus

you need to look at the low frequency a cab can produce. You need a cab that can put out 32hz which is where the B string is at.

First, the frequency is 30.87 Hz. Second, that's only the fundamental of the note in question, and none of the overtone content that actually makes it sound like a bass (or even musical). No, midrange, no treble, no midbass, just a nearly inaudible sine wave wasting wattage.

You dont need a 15" or 18" for this. Cabs like the ampeg svt 410hlf can go down to that frequency as it is made for multi stringed bassists.

You've been drinking the marketing department Kool-aid, haven't you? ; }

[RickenBoogie]

I like that crazy graphic up there, Greenboy. It kinda got me hypnotized, groovy. And, btw, I get some tight punchy sound from my low B through nothing but 10's. It's all about the cab, I'm using Mesa Powerhouse, and they kick the lowend like nobody's bussiness.

[Ic-e-man]

I run a Carvin 4x10, a 2x15, and a Goliath SWR 1x18, powered by a Behringer 300 watt head, the Goliath is way better than both my 15's combined. And crate isn't the best ever. I would test out the 18 to see how you like it, though. Shakes my windows...