Does anyone play through a Bose L1 System ?

[artfahie]

I just purchased one, I'd be open to using it for the bass, but I just don't know what I'd be in for. Yes, I have the optional bass module option for the system.

[Johnny Crab]

MINIMUM to play in a working band IMO if you have to use BOSE:

L-1 with aux amp and four "bass" bins

Called "bass" because they start dropping off at the C on your A-string. BOSE let it slip on their forum that they cutoff real fast at 40 Hz which places the "start to roll off" point higher.

I feed a Line 6 Bass POD XTLive into Channel 2 on preset "00" which is flat. Channel 1 is used for my vocal. I was forced to use it straight from my bass and it was an experience I hope never to repeat(a SansAmp programmable pedal rides in my gigbag as a backup now).

On the plus side, the L-1 channel line out XLR does work quite well into a PA so you get a "free" line out for PA use with it.

NOTE: STACK the bass bins, it works better.

Pics:




Sample recorded by Zoom H4 shown in the 3rd picture:
http://media.putfile.com/Growl-Eyed-Girl

[lfh]

Originally Posted by Johnny Crab

MINIMUM to play in a working band IMO if you have to use BOSE:

L-1 with aux amp and four "bass" bins

Have you ever tried it indoors?

FWIW: I played a big band gig recently (on double bass) using two L1:s and two bins (in total), and this setup could easily keep up with the band volume wise. Furthermore, I didn't feel it lacked in LF. Your mileage will vary...

[JimmyM]

What's the old saying?

No highs, no lows, it must be Bose

[DigMe]

I thought it was the worst sounding "higher-end" PA system I've ever heard.

bc

[Johnny Crab]

Originally Posted by lfh

Have you ever tried it indoors?

FWIW: I played a big band gig recently (on double bass) using two L1:s and two bins (in total), and this setup could easily keep up with the band volume wise. Furthermore, I didn't feel it lacked in LF. Your mileage will vary...

We mostly play outdoors.
The smallest indoor gig was at Sullivans in Houston for a Christmas party.
I was turned way down.
The next smallest indoor BOSE room was at the famous venue Rockefellers in Houston.
Great sound on medium volume.
They painted over the walls that had all the autographs!!!

Originally Posted by JimmyM

What's the old saying?
No highs, no lows, it must be Bose

Both the OP and I appreciate your most useful and experienced addition to this thread.
We both have the things.
Regardless of your cute saying, the OP and I want this stuff to sound as good as possible.

When I want lows in a large place that has FOH and we're using "old school" setup(backline, monitors):


Or just the amp rack and an SWR Henry 8x8.

The BOSE is more convenient for most gigs and I've tweaked it, a Line 6 BOXTLive, and gone thru about 15 different basses until I developed patches and found basses that make BOSE sound "acceptable" for me.

You can lug refrigerators or designer gear all you want and I did it for almost 2 decades.


It doesn't impress me any more to do that and I don't have to.
Having 3 modular rigs works just fine where I'm at musically now.
When used properly, only a bass player could tell the difference in sound.

[JimmyM]

I used to lug an SVT fridge for 20 years, too. Still would if I didn't get old

Sorry if it offended you...it's an old (but IMHO true) saying I like to crowbar into Bose conversations. Yes, it's very modular. But I have played through 2 of those bass bins before on a road gig and I wasn't impressed. As you pointed out, they take some work to get them to sound right. Glad you were able to get them to work, but I'm a little more plug 'n' play myself.

[kevinmoore73]

I'm really not trying to be a smart-ass when I ask: Why would you buy that? Seriously, tell my why I would want to buy a Bose L1 system.

[mrokern]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Sorry if it offended you...it's an old (but IMHO true) saying I like to crowbar into Bose conversations.

Yup, that's a standard in the pro audio world. I can't tell you how many riders I would see back in my club FOH days that stated "Absolutely no Peavey, no Mackie, no Bose". When I started touring as an engineer, that clause went right into riders I wrote.

I've heard these rigs sound passable for monitors, not 15" x 2" biamped wedge decent, but ok nonetheless if used by the right type of act. They took far too much tweaking for my taste, and the comment about needing 2-4 bass modules is correct from my experience with them.

-Mark

[1954bassman]

J Crabb,

So you use (4) of the bass bins, just to get your bass sound you want? I am curious, I have never laid eyes on the Bose system (L1?)

Do you use 4 to get really loud, or for better tone?

[Basshole]

I know that someone with a sliderule, and a big propeller on his head will show up to argue the point, and as always, YMMV...but my experience tells me of one very simple, easy to remember truth: You can't make big bass with little weenie speakers.

Oh yeah...and no light without heat either.

The moment either these laws of physics are repealed, someone wake me.

[Johnny Crab]

Originally Posted by kevinmoore73

I'm really not trying to be a smart-ass when I ask: Why would you buy that? Seriously, tell my why I would want to buy a Bose L1 system.

I didn't buy it and it's very doubtful I would. As a "replacement" bassist, it was provided as "the band" already owned it. My job was to make them sound tolerable(Ever fight for your sound all night? Did it for a LOT of nights with these contraptions!).

I agree with Andy at ACME. When asked about designing a GOOD bass cabinet with speakers smaller than 10 inches, he said:
"The problem is that 8" drivers either (1)have a higher resonance, which makes them impractical for low bass, or (2) if they're made to produce low bass, their efficiency would have to be even lower.

The other problem is that 4 magnets weigh more than 2 magnets. A 4x8 cab with good drivers will never be as light as a similar quality 2x10.

I have thought of making a small cab with 8" woofers, but it would never be capable of reproducing the low B.

My woofers are Eminence. They can make anything you want."

That said, the SWR Henry 8 x 8 does quite well.

I brought ACME's to gigs for months until I finally got patches, basses, and sound acceptable AT CLOSE RANGE. The original configuration had the BOSE stacked 2 high which put everything below 180 Hz at ankle level. The BOSE forum evangelists(I call them) said stack 'em 4 high. I did that and could finally hear and slightly feel low end. Nothing like ACME's and certainly NOTHING like an 18 in a folded box. It fits the band and I can get a decent sound in a half-moon shaped area in front of the setup up to about 10 or 20 feet. After that it sounds "plain" to me and bottom seems to fall off. This applies to outdoor gigs.

Indoors things get more strange. The best situation is to get the B-1's set up close to a wall which seems to "help" get the sound waves out of the B-1's into the room. This worked in the Intercontinental Houston ballrooms, at a large room in a country club(actually, 2 different gigs at similar rooms), and at the Majestic Maestro in Houston.

At LOUD gigs outdoors the BOSE low frequency amp does go into self protect if I play very hard on the E string, 1st 7 frets, even though I'm using compression. This is in their frequency "roll off" zone.

Jimmy: I'm not impressed with them either except for the vertical pole's dispersion(you can hear very good off-axis on stage from each one).

1954bassman: Using 4 is for what little headroom you can get PLUS being able to stack them high enough to hear them. Feel them? Only if you're inches away.

lfh: In that setting, I doubt you would have any problems. At Sullivans(a jazz club) I had plenty of LF on stage(very small), direct into a small FOH run by a very competent soundman.

Basshole: I agree. The analogy has been posted on other threads comparing the BOSE bass bins to computer subwoofers.

I do not play a 5 string through the BOSE although I do "push the xxxx" out of them with a sub-octave patch that emulates having a 5'er on two songs(out of 179). I'd say it's 0% fundamental and 100% harmonics on those parts via BOSE. Absolutely, positively NOTHING like playing the same patch through ACME's or the Henry.

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by Basshole

I know that someone with a sliderule, and a big propeller on his head will show up to argue the point, and as always, YMMV...but my experience tells me of one very simple, easy to remember truth: You can't make big bass with little weenie speakers.

Oh yeah...and no light without heat either.

The moment either these laws of physics are repealed, someone wake me.

We long ago put the propellers in storage along with our Captain Video helmets, and the sliderules went into the woodstove after we got our first Commodore 64s, but as far as getting big bass from small speakers goes it's nerds like Anthony Hoffman who determined probably before you were born that it's not possible. It's marketing departments, not engineering departments, that make (invalid) arguments to the contrary.

[Edword]

JC - just wondering, how many instruments can a setup like this handle?

[JimmyM]

You know, come to think of it, that night I used the Bose system, they gave me 4 bass bins and gave the keyboard player 2. And it just so happened we were in Texas...Hard Rock Cafe in Dallas. Still, it was a very weak sound. I made do, but I wasn't happy. Texans really like the Bose, huh?

I'll say one thing about those vertical poles...they do have pretty much the same sound from the stage to 30-40 feet out from the stage so it does make mixing a band from the stage easier. But I totally dispute their claim that you don't need monitors. If you mix the vocal properly in the poles, it's way too quiet to be able to hear yourself over the music. I like my voice very loud in my monitor, as do most of the people I work with. You can't do that with the poles unless all you want the audience to hear is the singing.

[Dave Muscato]

Subscribed...

P.S. I am very interested in real opinions about using this system. If you've never used the system yourself, please don't post things like, "Bose = Bring Other Sound Equipment" with a wink or start a fight. It seems that every thread about audiophile cables, Bose systems, or anything where marketing plays a part always gets locked. Let's be mature, please!

[jongor]

Notice, to the right of the stage, the guitarist isn't buying into the Bose system....

[Dave Muscato]

Jongor, the Bose system isn't necessarily designed to completely replace backline. Bose actually worked with Line6 to develop a setup that would be mutually beneficial. A lot of Bose users mic their combos and just turn down (or isolate), then feed the Bose system. They completely understand that a big part of guitarists' tones come from the amps themselves, and they don't expect them to give that up, either.

These videos should answer most of your questions about how the Bose system works and what it is designed to do:

http://toonz.ca/bose/wiki/index.php?...he_L1%E2%84%A2

[fdeck]

The only thing that strikes me when I see pictures of a "full band" Bose setup, is the amount of gear. For the pictures above, and Musicians Friend guiding me, I see $12k worth of gear, with 29 separate pieces totaling 650 pounds. The minimum bass system (pole plus 4 bass bins) weighs 178 pounds and costs $3300.

I personally can't transport a 178 pound bass amp, nor can I imagine ever needing that much sound. For me, the problem with the Bose system is that it might be great for huge halls or loud bands, but it doesn't scale down to the small jazz combo gigs that I play, where a GK MB150E combo weighing 24 pounds fills the bill.

This is just an aside, since I can't really fault anybody for doing what's necessary to get the sound that they are happy with. A friend of mine who plays upright bass is delighted with his Bose system.

[USAJO]

I've only heard the Bose in a small room acoustic guitar with vocal type thing. They sounded good to me. The drummer I work with did a gig where the Bose was used for stage monitors and he said it was great for that. He said you could hear everything non directional.
The set up in the pics must have cost a fortune. I'd love to hear it and judge for myself. I spent quite a bit of time a/b'ing computer speakers and the Bose are what I ended up buying. I had no preconceived notion of what the "in people" are buying. I can't imagine the Bose PA can compete in a large room, aggressive, loud band environment but I've been wrong before. I do hate lugging 120 lb bass bins. So it would be nice if Bose can do it.