Does anyone play through a Bose L1 System ?

[Akami]

Originally Posted by logrhythm

Alexclaber,

Ha! Dynamic control lessons should accompany all drum sets sold in this country!

On the Bose forum, one of the bose engineers wrote that mic-ing the bass drum only usually worked fine. That certainly helps dynamic control.

Agreed, a thumpier bass speaker would help. Bose tends to manufacture derivative products, and I see nothing in there existing pro sound line up that would be adaptable, other than the subwoofer that they already used to as a model for the bass module.

Maybe a good, efficient speaker that can reproduce frequencies from 40 to 200 hz would work fine with the L1. There is an output on the L1 that is EQ'd flat that would work with any 4 ohm speaker that can handle 250 watts (at 4 ohms). It would have to outperform 2 of the Bose bass modules to be worth using, and hopefully lighter and cheaper as well. How about one of the new Schroader mini’s, like the 12+ or 10+?

Great opening line!

I have already posted on this but I have 2 L1 systems and am selling all 4 of my B1 subs since I started using my Schroeder 1210R on New Years, which took me all of 5 seconds of listening to realize it was killing the B1's.

Much warmer in the lower mids, bigger bottom and very noticeably louders.

I love the Bose L1's but strongly suggest anyone interested in them skipping the Bose sub and going for the small lightweight bass cab of your choice.

On the other hand, I suppose a Bergantino NV610 would really get serious!

[A9X]

Originally Posted by Akami

On the other hand, I suppose a Bergantino NV610 would really get serious!

A dedicated <200Hz module would likely exceed the Berg for less size and weight.

[seamonkey]

Originally Posted by ric1312

Can you explain what combing is to me?

All I can say is I've had other bands play through my L1's at parties and such both indoors and out. All the frequencies sounded good to me both near and far and within it's dispersal pattern.

Good Combing explanations can be found in
http://www.audiodiycentral.com/resource/pdf/nflawp.pdf

And
http://www.meyersound.com/support/pa...ray_theory.htm

And all I can say, is if you hear it sounds "good", then it can also be measured.

Peavey, Myers, JBL, ... Measured and placed these into programs like EASE (or similar) that will let you design arrange arrays based on the room you're putting them into. It'd be interesting to see a measurement of the Bose put into EASE.

[fdeck]

Just my thought about the subwoofer issue. If you are happy with the on-axis tone of a conventional bass cab in the lower registers, then there should be no reason why you can't use it as the sub in an L1 system. A subwoofer has little chance of being both smaller and louder. Of course this doesn't help the guitarist, pianist, drummer, singer, and saxaphonist, but that's not the bassist's problem.

[ric1312]

Originally Posted by seamonkey

Good Combing explanations can be found in
http://www.audiodiycentral.com/resource/pdf/nflawp.pdf

And
http://www.meyersound.com/support/pa...ray_theory.htm

And all I can say, is if you hear it sounds "good", then it can also be measured.

Peavey, Myers, JBL, ... Measured and placed these into programs like EASE (or similar) that will let you design arrange arrays based on the room you're putting them into. It'd be interesting to see a measurement of the Bose put into EASE.

.........design arrays based on the room you're putting them into. I think you are going off on a bit of a tangent. Isn't what you are talking about a permanenet sound installation set up perfectly for a large venue?

[logrhythm]

Originally Posted by seamonkey

To be fair, I've only tried to Bose in a store. I didn't feel the stock bass modules were well balanced to the array. As compared to conventional speakers near by.
I'm not enticed to fork over the dough for a 30 day trial as there are no measurements of the Bose as compared to other alternatives to which I can get accurate measurements and thus predictions of how they will perform in real life.

Unless Bose has done something clever with the crossover, like only sending treble to select drivers, the center to center separation seems to be too far for favorable high frequency without combing. Yes, it's on the vertical plane, but still people sit at varying distances from the arrays.

As a comparison see the Peavey VersArray. There are small upper midrange drivers, in a perfect line. And it still has high freq horn in the middle. And it comes with aiming software so you can see what's going on:

It's a big leap from Bose to Peavey but some of the science would be easier to swallow if Bose took some measurements.

Seamonkey,

A line array with 2.2 inch speakers will have some comb filtering occurring at higher frequencies, starting at about 5000 hz, and progressively getting worse as the frequencies go higher. One of the effects of this is some degradation of the highs, which can be corrected somewhat with EQ. But a chart of frequency response will still show a jagged up and down pattern at the highest frequencies. The frequency response of the L1 doesn’t extend into the highest highs, so some of this problem is avoided. I think that I can “hear” this when I compare the L1 with studio monitors side by side, but it is subtle.

Most people are fairly well pleased by the sound of the “stick” part of the L1, and I've seen very few criticisms. I know of some very finicky keyboard players who really like how the L1 sounds with a good monophonic acoustic piano patch, and a lot of DJ’s like the way they sound with recorded music.

What the L1 really needs is some accompanying credible specifications, a re-engineered bass module, a lower price, and straightforward marketing policy devoid of hype.

L.

[seamonkey]

Originally Posted by ric1312

.........design arrays based on the room you're putting them into. I think you are going off on a bit of a tangent. Isn't what you are talking about a permanenet sound installation set up perfectly for a large venue?

Every room I walk in is different and just a best guess at setting up. For example, if you had just two cabinets, it is best to do the 70's thing of putting one on each side of the stage or putting both in one place? And if you put them together should there be a 5 degree splay between them? If you know the dispersion of the cabs, it may be you could put them on one side and get full coverage. Then not have to run cables everywhere, and come up with an innovative stage layout. Not for everyone, but some might think about it.

[seamonkey]

Originally Posted by logrhythm

What the L1 really needs is some accompanying credible specifications, a re-engineered bass module, a lower price, and straightforward marketing policy devoid of hype.

L.

+1

[fdeck]

If you market a product as revolutionary, and then provide zero hard evidence, it is an open invitation for the peanut gallery to fill in the blanks.

Perhaps an unexpected surprise to many people is that the laws of physics place enough constraints on how a speaker can work, that the peanut gallery can fill in the blanks with a remarkable level of detail.

[ric1312]

Originally Posted by seamonkey

+1

As a very pleased owner I don't care about the specifications as long as it does what it says it will do and it does.

I use 4 bass bins and it works great and is very balanced with the system.

Lower price? That wouldn't hurt then I could buy the two more of them I want. But, you get what you pay for. The amount I've paid for two I would be able to get a hulking PA with huge speakers that would kill my back and still have a lot of problems no matter how good I was at running it.

Hype is when something doesn't live up to it's advertising. The L1's have lived up to everything on the site.

[USAJO]

hey what the heck? We got scolded once for discussing Bose marketing. Can we now go there again? Oh Boy...........................just kidding

[Basshole]

Originally Posted by logrhythm

What the L1 really needs is some accompanying credible specifications, a re-engineered bass module, a lower price, and straightforward marketing policy devoid of hype.

BOSE ARE YOU LISTENING? HE'S RIGHT.

You can't market to musicians the way you market to the general public. Until they learn this, they will not do well in pro audio.

[logrhythm]

Originally Posted by USAJO

hey what the heck? We got scolded once for discussing Bose marketing. Can we now go there again? Oh Boy...........................just kidding

Didn't see the "just kidding" until now, but I'll post this anyway:

Some of what transpired earlier wasn’t exactly a discussion.

However, right now, there is a discussion going on, and it has a positive bent in that the motive underlying it is not truly detrimental to the company. It expresses a wish for information that would benefit both current users of the product, and also future purchasers of the product. Credible information is a good thing, no? Also, a company’s policies and reputation are a part of the products that they make and sell. Certainly it has an effect on resale value, and it reflects on how the owner of the product is perceived by others.

L.

[logrhythm]

Originally Posted by fdeck

If you market a product as revolutionary, and then provide zero hard evidence, it is an open invitation for the peanut gallery to fill in the blanks.

Perhaps an unexpected surprise to many people is that the laws of physics place enough constraints on how a speaker can work, that the peanut gallery can fill in the blanks with a remarkable level of detail.

So true, fdeck. And I do believe that the surprise was unexpected.

I saw from your website that you are in Madison. Love that town! My old band played at the BYOB Blues Fest back in 2005 on the stage at the Pavilion at the U of W. It was sponsored by 105.5 FM, and they had one of those FANTASTIC sound systems! Then we played an evening gig at Angelic Brewing Co. (nice place!) through our own, at that time, awful (standard 3 tier) system, and it was like Ric’s worst ear-bleeding nightmare! The room is small and the crowd was older. We could have put some L1's to good use that night.

L.

[Akami]

Originally Posted by A9X

A dedicated <200Hz module would likely exceed the Berg for less size and weight.

This is the basis of my thoughts too, that there are many better options out there than using the Bose subs with the PAS, which is why I keep pushing a small cab like the Schroeder 1210 that I'm using.

Also some of you have mentioned a powered sub, but I don't think it's really necessary since the base of the tower has 3 power amps built into it, one of which is 250 watts @4ohms dedicated output for the sub. All you need is a cab you like the sound of.

My mention of the NV610 was added as humor but I guess someone could always get a couple Acoustic 301's wired for 8ohms.

[Dave Muscato]

Akami, that's a great idea... I love the sound of my Schroeder 21012L.... I might have to try that.

[fdeck]

Originally Posted by logrhythm

So true, fdeck. And I do believe that the surprise was unexpected.

I saw from your website that you are in Madison. Love that town! My old band played at the BYOB Blues Fest back in 2005 on the stage at the Pavilion at the U of W. It was sponsored by 105.5 FM, and they had one of those FANTASTIC sound systems! Then we played an evening gig at Angelic Brewing Co. (nice place!) through our own, at that time, awful (standard 3 tier) system, and it was like Ric’s worst ear-bleeding nightmare! The room is small and the crowd was older. We could have put some L1's to good use that night.

L.

Ah, the livestock pavilion. I live about a mile from there. Glad you enjoyed your visit!

[Akami]

Originally Posted by Dave Muscato

Akami, that's a great idea... I love the sound of my Schroeder 21012L.... I might have to try that.

I bet it'll make you put your B1's up for sale like I did!

The 1210 made me put the B1's away the first time I tentatively hooked it up. Much more output, fuller lower mids, fatter bottom, and your 21012L would whoop the hell out of my 1210.

[Dave Muscato]

Originally Posted by Akami

I bet it'll make you put your B1's up for sale like I did!

The 1210 made me put the B1's away the first time I tentatively hooked it up. Much more output, fuller lower mids, fatter bottom, and your 21012L would whoop the hell out of my 1210.

I don't have any B1s, or even an L1 (yet)... I'm considering an L1 setup for my band, and actually, we have a gig on April 5 with L1s provided, and that will be the first time I get to give 'em a go! I'm excited about it

[Akami]

Originally Posted by Dave Muscato

I don't have any B1s, or even an L1 (yet)... I'm considering an L1 setup for my band, and actually, we have a gig on April 5 with L1s provided, and that will be the first time I get to give 'em a go! I'm excited about it

I'm really happy to have the L1's but think of them as best for vocals and instrumentation other than bass.

You may want to think about the possibility of keeping your bass rig separate and using the L1's for everything else.

On another note, tonight my bosses wife asked about the L1 and was pretty surprised when I told her it was the sound system.

I continue to be a big fan of the concept, but even though there are players out there obviously happy to play bass through them I think for less money you can have the exact amp/speaker you like and have less to carry too, then leave the vocals and everything else to the Bose system.

Whatever you do, definitely plug that 21012L into the bass output and do a comparison, then let us know what you think.

Sorry if my post seems a bit rambling; I just got back from the bar and am trying to keep my eyes open long enough to write this.