Why isn't graphite more popular?

[Shy Guy]

I understand that some people find graphite "sterile", but I have found that most of the basses with graphite can become rather colorful. I understand the cost of making a good graphite neck, but I don't get why there aren't more basses in the sub $1500 price range other than steinbergers and used peaveys (all great basses, just hard to find).

[TFunkadelic]

Because even the "cheap" graphite basses are expensive, relatively speaking, to an SX or Squire bass. I think if you could get halfway decent graphite necked basses for $300 they'd be pretty popular.

Graphite basses in the high end market seem fairly represented.

[nastyn8c]

Originally Posted by TFunkadelic

Because even the "cheap" graphite basses are expensive, relatively speaking, to an SX or Squire bass. I think if you could get halfway decent graphite necked basses for $300 they'd be pretty popular.

Graphite basses in the high end market seem fairly represented.

When you get into the very high end market, there are also a lot of people (myself included) that get very snobby about wanting to hear the tone of certain woods.

[WalterBush]

Originally Posted by nastyn8c

When you get into the very high end market, there are also a lot of people (myself included) that get very snobby about wanting to hear the tone of certain woods.

And like certain rare woods, graphite necks cost quite a bit, and sell to people who like graphite in particular.

You won't find a $300 instrument in production with a graphite neck; they're too labor intensive, and occasionally necks "fail" in the manufacturing process, so companies know going in that some of their effort will be wasted and raise the price of a good neck to compensate. Whether it's a Status carbon fiber neck or a Steinberger composite, they're just tricky to manufacture.

I love graphite necks, personally, and I don't see why more people don't like them. I suspect lovers of Koa, Bubinga, Zebrawood, and Purpleheart would say the same thing, though.

[Shy Guy]

I never mentioned anything about cheap $300 basses, it's just that steinberger is apparently the only company that still makes basses in the $1000-$1500 range.

[spade2you]

It certainly has tonal characteristics and seems mostly noted for a higher end tone that some might call sterile, but then again, the same is often said about active electronics, which can be standard equipment on most custom basses.

A major factor is obviously cost, but carbon can't quite be shaped or changed like conventional wood necks. Typically you'll get only a few choices overall because the necks are made from a custom and expensive mold. Bee, for example, only offered graphite as a 5 string or 7 string neck. Choosing neck profiles, scale length, and string spacing simply isn't as easy.

I think graphite reinforcement has come a long way to the point that even Fender does it. Naturally, nothing will be as stiff as pure graphite necks, but I think graphite reinforcement has offered a very beneficial best-of-both worlds in terms of function, building, and tone.

[chicago_mike]

The cost of R+D and the mold making the baking process. THese are serious factors in making a graphite neck. The cost of messing up say 10 wood necks is nothing comparred to messing up 2 or 3 graphite necks.

[unclejane]

Originally Posted by nastyn8c

When you get into the very high end market, there are also a lot of people (myself included) that get very snobby about wanting to hear the tone of certain woods.

But I'd wager even they would scarcely be able to detect any difference in the woods used in a blind test (unless they knew what the basses were made out of beforehand and which instrument was being played each time).
The difference would likely be negligible if Graphite were used too. I personally would love a solid composite version of my Bunny for the stength/stability advantages alone.

When I was gigging I got to borrow a Steinberger - you could practically throw the thing on the floor and it wouldn't so much as go out of tune. The relief was always perfect and never changed once it was setup even with varying temperatures. It otherwise sounded like a regular old EMG equipped bass.

Cost and manufacturing difficulty are probably the main reasons composites aren't used as much as wood. Wood is cheaper and a lot easier to manipulate - the appearance of a nice wood is a big advantage too sales and acceptance-wise. Tone is probably the least significant factor.

LS

[warwick.hoy]

Modulus put out the Genesis line which was a Graphite/Traditional wooden neck hybrid. Those can be had for ~$1500 and are top notch basses IMO. The Idea was to have the best of both worlds.

I think the Modulus VJ basses which is a Jazz Bass body with a full graphite neck can also be had at the ~$1500 range on a good day. I've never played one of those though.

[Ric5]

Why isn't graphite more popular?

PRICE

[OlafR]

I don't like the sound of a graphite neck because it's too sterile. Colorless.

Beïng said that, it's a matter of taste. There are people who love the tonal quality of graphite.

I like wengé most. It has that nice low/midrange pressure. Almost brown/purplish.

[kotzman]

I've owned two Modulus VJ's and two Quantum's, all of them just fantastic basses. Three of them were fretless and I particularly liked the way the graphite necks affected the tone and playability. They were "alive", really very vibrant tonally, but not at the expense of a traditional type, (woody) of tone. I only parted with them because they were a bit heavy and I am,(like many TBers), fickle and have many attacks of GAS. They Modulus basses are expensive new, but are bargains on the used market.

[younggun]

As far as popularity goes, its pretty much been explained by price and manufacturing difficulties (in you really want to get into the ecomomics of it though, its really supply and demand, bassist tend to be hardlined traditionalist and most want a wooden bodied Fender style bass...thus there are many cheap and available, if more folks wanted graphite it would become cheaper and more available). As far as tonality goes, I'd have to disagree that having an instrument with a graphite neck causes a sterile tone. Obviously, the graphite material is more consistent tonally from instrument to instrument since the density and makeup of the graphite can be minutely controlled, but what the body is made from has a larger effect on the overall tone of the instrument than the neck. I've had an all one-piece graphite bass and a bass with a mahogany body and graphite neck...they are worlds apart in tone. A graphite neck does impart a particular "growl" to an electric bass (I haven't had to opportunity to hear an all graphite upright yet), as well as very clear mid to high tones (IMO), and I can usually tell when I hear a bass with a graphite neck. Its understandable why some folks would not prefer this sound, that's just a matter of taste, but to say a graphite instrument has a sterile tone shows a lack of information. The graphite ADDS something to the sound, but is not the overall controlling factor of tone. There are huge sound differences between a Modulus, Zon, Steinie, or Status (and the different models within each brand.) There are some similarities in tone (just as there is btwn a solid or hollow body instrument, instruments made from the same wood bodies, instruments with the same pickups, etc.) but the variety and color of each instrument is obvious to anyone who takes a moment to listen or try them out. I personally like the tonal quality that a graphite neck adds to an instrument, but I also like my wooden necked basses too...its all a matter of what sound you are looking for (or which sound happens to find you ).

[sleepy_monkey]

Originally Posted by OlafR

I don't like the sound of a graphite neck because it's too sterile. Colorless.

Couldn't disagree with you more. But to each his own.

My graphite necks are anything but colorless. I would also put them up against any wooden neck any day of the week....and I have owned both and many different types. I feel I can get more tonal qualities out of my Mods than any type of wooden necked bass I have played.

[Albibass]

Originally Posted by OlafR

I don't like the sound of a graphite neck because it's too sterile. Colorless.

Beïng said that, it's a matter of taste. There are people who love the tonal quality of graphite.

I like wengé most. It has that nice low/midrange pressure. Almost brown/purplish.

That's so untrue.
Don't know what magazine it was but they did a blindfolded test and none of the participants could say if it was a graphite or wooden neck.
In fact, my Zon sounds a lot warmer as a lot of other basses.

[OlafR]

Just a matter of opinion.

[UncleBalsamic]

It's expensive and relatively difficult to produce.

[nostatic]

I have two Zons (fretless early lightwave 5 and fretted sonus 5). Tone is always subjective, but having owned many high end basses over the years, I can say that the Zon necks are WAY more stable than any wood one I've owned/played. I can have stupid low action, never have to adjust anything no matter what the weather is like. Tone counts but so does playability.

That said, I'm looking to get a Sadowsky to get some different tones and playing approaches. But that is based more on pickups and string spacing rather than materials.

[Eublet]

Originally Posted by sleepy_monkey

Couldn't disagree with you more. But to each his own.

My graphite necks are anything but colorless. I would also put them up against any wooden neck any day of the week....and I have owned both and many different types. I feel I can get more tonal qualities out of my Mods than any type of wooden necked bass I have played.

I'd agree. I've owned two Mod's, one was a VJ. It was definitely not colorless or sterile, but it was very "even" sounding across the neck. You didn't have to work with it as much as you would with many jazz basses since it had a consistent sound. I can see how many people who are used to avoiding certain parts of the neck might find that strange or even "sterile". That VJ was a workhorse though. I gigged it inside and outside in sweltering heat and humidity, and the neck was just rock solid. I ultimately sold it because it weighed a frickin' ton. I do miss it quite often though. It was a killer instrument.

[Flaked Beans]

I replaced my status 6 graphite neck with a wooden neck.

look here (all described):
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showpo...0&postcount=28



This graphite neck will stay attached to the body forever..