10" vs 12"

Discussion in 'Amps [BG]' started by magnum783, Feb 9, 2013.


  1. magnum783

    magnum783

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2013
    Hi guys thanks for allowing people like me access to your superb knowledge of all things that are bass. I have a question I am looking at purchasing one of the Ampeg PF combos but I don't know whether to go two ten inch or one twelve. Now to tell you about what I play. I have a fender Jazz bass mexican made. I play old country to eighties country. Ie merle, waylan, old george strait, Suzzy Boguss, and of course Johnny Cash just to name a few. Any help is appreciated if this is not the bass for me please speak up I am still open to options.
  2. TomB

    TomB Supporting Member

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    Generally 2-10's will be a bit louder than a single 12 of the same manifacture if they show the same resistance (measured in ohms) to the amp, due to the larger cone area of the 210. Try them both, and see which one you like better.
  3. magnum783

    magnum783

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    Feb 9, 2013
    I have played two tens and like the punch but finding the two twelve version is proving to be difficult. I like two ten's but I wish they had a little more sustain
  4. Warhawk

    Warhawk

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    If that's what you are limited to I'd go with the two tens.
  5. Warhawk

    Warhawk

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    Huh? Troll?
  6. GregC

    GregC Johnny and Joe Gold Supporting Member

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    Keep in mind that 2X10 cabs can sound very different from one another depending on the design. Said another way, speaker size is not a determinant of tone. For example, my Ampeg 210AV cabinet is a punchy, bass-shy/mid-forward little box, while an Acme 210 (the B2) goes deep deep deep.

    Also, are you sure a PF combo with 2 12s exists? I've only heard of the 210HE, the 1X15HE, the 410HLF and the 115HLF cabs that go with the PF heads, and that's all I see on Ampeg's site: http://www.ampeg.com/products/portaflex/index.html
  7. shackled

    shackled

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    Jun 25, 2009
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    Western NY
    IMO the 12" will give you better tone.
    The 10 inchers will be faster.
    But I don't play country so maybe I should just get my coat. :bag:
  8. SirMjac28

    SirMjac28 Patiently Waiting For The Next British Invasion Gold Supporting Member

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    Huh?
  9. Srirachaglo

    Srirachaglo

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    There is no 12" PF cab, you're thinking of the PF-115HE (15").
  10. JimmyM

    JimmyM Supporting Member

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    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    Speaker size has absolutely no bearing on the sound of the cab. If it did, then all cabs with the same size speakers would sound the same. And all speakers respond at the exact same speed...instantaneously. Thinking some are faster or slower than others is a result of the sound of the cab, not the actual speed of the speaker responding to the note.

    Anyway, Ampeg doesn't make a PF112. Only PF 210, 410, and two different kinds of 115's. Only tried the PF210he and PF115he (own two of them). Both very good cabs, and you could make a case for either.
  11. bgavin

    bgavin Supporting Member

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    Actually, that is not quite accurate.

    [nitpicking]
    In keeping with the long tradition of TB nitpicking, I have to point out the driver is mechanical, therefore instantaneous does not apply.
    The voice coil has the property of induction.
    Remember ELI the ICE man, where voltage leads current in an inductive circuit?

    Last, all drivers have mass.
    The mass is accelerated and decelerated by the motor (magnet assembly).
    A hemi-powered dragster accelerates its mass faster than a Yugo because the horsepower to weight ratio is higher.
    [/nitpicking]

    OP, all humor aside, each model of driver has its own physical characteristics which determine its sound quality.
    As noted above, you won't hear any differences in driver acceleration in the bass frequency range.
    What you will hear is how loud one is compared with another (sensitivity) and frequency ranges (low and high).

    The physical layout also affects the sound quality.
    Vertical stacking restricts distribution in the vertical plane, and widens distribution in the horizontal plane.
    Square layouts such as the typical 4x10 introduce peaks and valleys (combing) that varies by where the listener is positioned.

    Very important is how the driver is housed.
    Cabinet volume and tuning make huge differences in the bass response of a given driver.
    Small cabs let them handle a bit more power, but mostly meet marketing and sales objectives, but with reduced low bass output.
    Big boxes go down lower, offer a bit less power handling, and become a PIA at load-out time.

    Sealed boxes offer 'tighter' bass response because they do not have the 90-degree lag time between note generation and vent output.
    The price paid for sealed is less bass response for a given voltage, and a higher roll-off frequency.
    Most electric bass drivers are optimized for vented boxes.

    You can hear frequency response.
    Woofers, i.e. Legend BP-102 are designed for low frequency use, and have no "sparkle" when used by themselves.
    These are paired with smaller drivers, i.e. Alpha 6a that are good to 5,000 Hz or so.
    Some players like the thud, others want something full range.
    This is where it becomes subjective, and your opinion is the only one that matters.
  12. StrangerDanger

    StrangerDanger Neo Maxie Zoom Dweebie Supporting Member

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    :( I thought this thread was about pizzas.
  13. dukeorock

    dukeorock Gold Supporting Member

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    Authorized fEARful/FEARLESS/greenboy designs builder
    Your time would be better spent looking for the cab that suits your needs best and forget about speaker size altogether. It really is a dead end street.

    Think about how much cab you want to schlep, power handling and general tona preferences, and you'll get better answers and closer to something really useful for your needs.

    Best of luck in your search!
  14. magnum783

    magnum783

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2013
    I am sorry guys I was totally incorrect it is only 2x10" or 1x15". I feel like a dork. I am looking for a quality sound and not so much budget confined. So if I need to spend a little more money than go with one of the PF sets please let me know.
  15. dukeorock

    dukeorock Gold Supporting Member

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    Authorized fEARful/FEARLESS/greenboy designs builder
    Same rule applies...it's not so much about the size of the speaker, but what you are looking to get from your cab(s).

    There are a ton of horrible 210's and 115's out there, and there are some pretty amazing ones as well...

    Is a smaller, lighter cab important? Hi-fi? Old school? A little more detail and some folks can be very helpful to your search :)
  16. magnum783

    magnum783

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2013
    Those are questions I never new to answer to get help. so here goes. Smaller not all that important I have plenty of space to store and transport. Hi-fi something I don't know enough to tell anyone about so if you can explain that I can answer that question. Old school nope I will buy what ever will produce the best sound. I like amps that have a DI as that seems to work really well with the sound guy but I think that is pretty much a standard with most modern day amps.
    I hope that helps clarify. I am looking for a clean sound with good resense,'
  17. JimmyM

    JimmyM Supporting Member

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    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    [suicide]

    BANG!

    THUD!

    [/suicide]

    :D

    OK OK! I get it...not instantaneously...just sounds like it. But still, you have to admit that what we perceive as slow and fast response in speakers is because of frequency response making us think that.

    Throw me a bone here ;)
  18. dukeorock

    dukeorock Gold Supporting Member

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    Authorized fEARful/FEARLESS/greenboy designs builder
    There's a lot of very different opinions on Talkbass about cabs, and everything else, for that matter...lots of them are great opinions. I don't always agree, but that's a good thing. Keep learning, keep growing and love the fact that there are a bunch of ways to achieve a great bass sound. Personally, I think bass cab design has come a very long way recently with forward thinkers like

    greenboy (fEARful, FEARLESS, etc)
    Alex Claber (Barfaced)
    Duke LeJeune (AudioKinesis)
    Baer

    And I'm sure there's more that I've yet to have the pleasure of hearing. After a little research and comparing, you can find something you'll love...sadly, for me, they don't exists at a Guitar Center :(
  19. BearCave

    BearCave Supporting Member

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    LOL!! :)
  20. ScottTunes

    ScottTunes

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    Feb 7, 2011
    A little clarification: "Old Skool" refers to the sound cabinets in the 60s and 70s made. More thump and thud... Not a lot of clarity in the upper freqs. A sound I happen to prefer (i.e. Jamerson, Macca). You can achieve this with either 10s or 15s...

    However, it seems you are searching for a modern bass sound - wide, full range, with detail and clarity. Again, achievable with 10s and/or 15s.

    What do you mean by "resense?" Response? Resonance? Presence?

    Bottom line (pun intended) is to listen to as many different cabinets as possible (preferably using your amp and bass), and learn what the differences mean regarding the sound you wish to hear. Only you can identify the sound that pleases you most.

    Good hunting!!

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