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18V nightmare!!!

Discussion in 'Effects [BG]' started by Antipodean, Mar 8, 2014.


  1. Antipodean

    Antipodean

    Joined:
    May 28, 2010
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    So I went out and bought me a new Pickle Pie B to add to my pedal board.
    Sounded awesome in the shop, so was looking forward to placing in my rig.

    My effects board consists of a bunch of 9V powered pedals, and an 18V MXR Flanger. All pedals running off adaptor &/or daisy chain.

    I always check the adaptor before I plug it in, but had a brain fail and plugged all my 9V pedals into the 18V adaptor. Suddenly a bunch of my pedals started flashing on and off.
    I realised what I had done, then switched to the 9V. Same thing - pedals flashing on and off by themselves. There was no manual on/off control.

    I though I had just fried about $AUD1,300 worth of pedals! Nothing worked, but I was given some hope by the fact that the Pickle Pie B would switch on and off.

    So I pulled apart my board and tested each pedal, one by one.... and these are the results:

    3Leaf Wonderlove - ALIVE :D
    MXR Bass Compressor - ALIVE :D
    tc Polytune Mini - ALIVE :D
    Wren & Cuff Pickle Pie B - ALIVE :D
    MXR EVH Phase 90 - ALIVE :D
    Boss LS-2 - ALIVE :D
    Boss BF-2 - DEAD :(
    Mooer Eleclady - ALIVE :D

    That's right, only one pedal died after being fed 18V!
    I don't know if the other pedals may have a shortened life, but the all work properly right now.

    That was a pretty scary moment.
    Just thought I'd share that there seems to be some sort of overvoltage protection in modern pedals.





    And yes, I'm aware of the fact I have/had 3 flangers.... :help:
     
  2. Veldar

    Veldar

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2012
    Location:
    kurri kurri, NSW, Australia
    RIP BF-2, we barely knew you. :bawl:
     
  3. runmikeyrun

    runmikeyrun

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2001
    Location:
    northeast Ohio
    some analog pedals can tolerate higher voltages ok. I wouldn't recommend doing it, but usually in simpler, and usually analog, effects the transistors and resistors can stand the voltages no prob, it's the caps that are usually only rated @ 16v. In effects with voltage regulators, ICs, etc you have the potential to cook something if the voltage rating for a component isn't high enough. For instance, a 5v regulator can tolerate 9v, but 18v will over heat it.

    As for making the mistake, don't worry we've all done it. I have two effects on my board that are not 9v. I color coded the end on the power plug to correspond with the color of the pedal, making it harder to plug the wrong thing in.

    If you're electronics savvy, I'd pop that thing open and try to find out what went bad. In a case of voltage overload like that, you have a good chance that the suspect component is visibly burnt and easy to find. If you're not good with electronics, sell it on ebay as for parts and buy a new one.
     
  4. negativefx

    negativefx complete hack Gold Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2013
    Location:
    Fort Collins
    Diodes and caps are usually the first to fry and damaged ones should be easy to visually locate.
     
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  6. Joeynone

    Joeynone Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2011
    Blew up my micro pig doing that. :(
     
  7. johnk_10

    johnk_10 vintage bass nut Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2008
    Location:
    Thousand Oaks, CA
    Disclosures:
    John K Custom Basses
    the BF-2 has a 7805 5V regulator connected directly to the 9v supply. my guess is that you fried it, but it should be a simple fix.
     
  8. line6man

    line6man

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2008
    Location:
    Close to Los Angeles, CA
    7805 chips regulate 6.5V to 35V inputs. The only way you are going to fry one with 18V is if the heat is too much for the heatsink to dissipate.
     
  9. johnk_10

    johnk_10 vintage bass nut Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2008
    Location:
    Thousand Oaks, CA
    Disclosures:
    John K Custom Basses
    a 7805L has a TO-92 case and IIRC, in that pedal it doesn't have a heat sink, but yeah, it's still supposed to be able to handle 35V.
     
  10. TaySte_2000

    TaySte_2000

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2001
    Location:
    Manchester, UK
    Disclosures:
    Endorsing Artist: Mojohand, Subdecay, Overwater, Matamp
    Ditch the 18v and add a diago voltage doubler on the 9v chain and avoid such mistakes in the future
     
  11. boomertech

    boomertech Gold Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2009
    Location:
    Syracuse, NY
    Disclosures:
    Designer/Owner of FEA Labs
    Here are four components (that I can quickly identify) in the BF-2 that may have failed with the 18V supply. These components are before the voltage regulator, so they are not protected by the regulation.

    D1 is an 11V zener diode, its only current limit is the 56ohm resistor used in the ground path from the power jack. I would check here first.

    D10 is a signal diode (similar to a 1N4148) that is in series with the 56ohm resistor in the power jack ground path. Excessive current can easily fry these guys.

    C39 is a 100uF 16V filter capacitor. It would have seen the bulk of the 18V, but they are usually tolerant to brief over-voltage.

    C25 is a 33uF 6.3V capacitor. It would have seen about half of the 18V.

    -Frank
     
  12. Antipodean

    Antipodean

    Joined:
    May 28, 2010
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Hmmm, so it's only a few components that may have been killed on the BF-2?
    Shouldn't be too hard to fix, I guess.
    I've had a look, and I can't visually identify anything burned. I'll have a look to see if I could possibly attempt to repair it myself.

    I've also sent emails to the manufacturers (MXR, 3Leaf and Wren & Cuff), and replies are encouraging.
    The MXR pedals have a protection circuit, Pickle Pie B can handle an 18V mistake (but apparently not continuous), and Wonderlove can apparently run at 18V.
    This could explain why it was only the "vintage" pedal that died.

    As a side question, is it possible to do non-fatal damage from over-voltage? Or is it a case of "if it works, no damage done"?
    The Pickle Pie B sounds noisier that I recall from testing in-store before buying (and bringing it home and subsequently torturing it). Kinda like a crackling sound on top of the expected buzzing of a fuzz pedal when no playing.
     
  13. bongomania

    bongomania Gold Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Location:
    PDX, OR
    Disclosures:
    owner, OVNIFX and OVNILabs
    Yes, it is certainly possible to do non-fatal damage. Components can have a shorter lifespan, or their performance can be affected.
     
  14. Antipodean

    Antipodean

    Joined:
    May 28, 2010
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Well, after realising it could be a number of different components, and the fact I don't own any soldering equipment, I figured it would be best to take the pedal to someone who knows what they are doing in order to diagnose and fix the BF-2.
    Turns out it was just one fried diode - easy fix! Though the diode did not visually appear to have been fried.
    Repair cost was less than buying a "new" one and selling the dead one for parts, so that's some relief.

    So I now have my BF-2 back on my board!

    Incidentally, I have removed the MXR Flanger (the only 18V pedal I have), so the chances of overpowering as back down to 0%.... for the moment.
    And I'm back to only 2 flangers.... for the moment.

    Oh, and according to the reply I got from tc electronic about the overvoltage issue, they said I got lucky that no damage occurred to the Polytune Mini. No protection circuit?
    Boss said that the LS-2 has a voltage protection.
     
  15. Bassist30

    Bassist30

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2004
    Location:
    NEW YORK
  16. alec

    alec

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2000
    Location:
    Perth, Australia
    Happy ending!
     

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