1. Welcome to TalkBass, the Premier Bass Player Community and Information Source. We've been uniting the Low End Since 1998!

    We're glad you've found us. Register a 100% Free Account to post and unlock tons of features.

50hz vz 60hz

Discussion in 'Amps [BG]' started by cliff78, Nov 29, 2012.


  1. cliff78

    cliff78

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2006
    Location:
    Florida
    I just bought a markbass minimark with a rating of 230v @ 50hz here in Dubai. If i move to the Philippines, would I be able to use it. The Philippines has 220v @ 60hz.
     
  2. will33

    will33

    Joined:
    May 22, 2006
    Location:
    austin,tx
    Disclosures:
    Use of this field for any other purpose is prohibited
    Should be able to, yes. I'd check with Markbass to be sure. The "hz" is the cycles their electric system runs on. The same transformer should be ok with the 220 or 230 volts.
     
  3. cliff78

    cliff78

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2006
    Location:
    Florida
    Thanks Will. The in-house technician from where I bought it from said it was ok. Can anyone else chime in on this. I just want to ba absolutely sure.
     
  4. BbbyBld

    BbbyBld

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    Location:
    Meridian, MS
    Disclosures:
    MI Amp Engineer: Peavey Electronics
    It'll be fine.

    A 50Hz power transformer has a slightly thicker core than 60Hz so it won't saturate running at the lower frequency.

    If you run a 60Hz transformer at 50Hz...that's where you can run into problems.
     
  5. Register to disable this ad
  6. seamonkey

    seamonkey

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2004
    Markbass being SMPS it has a pretty small power transformer. Myself, I would just use it. But - Their FAQ is specific enough that you'd better get it in writing from Markbass if you ever have a warranty problem:

    http://www.markbass.it/support.php

    Can the voltage be changed if I move to another country?

    Unfortunately, due to homologation issues, the voltage may not be changed without having the amp reapproved for electrical safety. If you're just traveling internationally with your amp, we recommend using power transformers, which are generally available from backline companies and can also be purchased inexpensively.

    Can I use my Markbass amp in countries with different voltages?

    No! Your amp/combo was manufactured to be sold and used in the country of purchase, and is factory preset to that country's voltage. If you use it in a country with a different voltage without using a power converter, it will not work and may be seriously damaged.
     
  7. ThisBass

    ThisBass

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2012
    Location:
    Germany
    But Ampeg did it always.
     
  8. BbbyBld

    BbbyBld

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    Location:
    Meridian, MS
    Disclosures:
    MI Amp Engineer: Peavey Electronics
    If the amp has a switching supply, it's still perfectly fine.

    That's why I said "can". The transformer has to be designed for it.
     
  9. will33

    will33

    Joined:
    May 22, 2006
    Location:
    austin,tx
    Disclosures:
    Use of this field for any other purpose is prohibited
    Good point.

    It should work fine, but get it in writing.....just because.

    I didn't even think of warranty issues. I've never had to use a warranty with any amp I've ever had.
     
  10. Handyman

    Handyman

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2007
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Translation: We cheaped out on our SMPS, and unlike many of our competitors products, will only work with a fixed voltage.

    This is not an issue for the vast majority of customers, but Genz Benz amps, for example, can work with power from just about anywhere.
     
  11. ThisBass

    ThisBass

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2012
    Location:
    Germany
    Designed for 55Hz?
     
  12. Mehve

    Mehve

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2012
    Location:
    Kitchener, ON
    You can get away with less iron in a transformer designed for 60Hz, that's all. So it's possible that trying to run it at only 50Hz could put it over the limit and bad things will happen. But if the unit is built heavily enough for 50Hz, it's quite likely that it won't mind getting 60Hz instead (Likely, not 100% guaranteed).
     
  13. ThisBass

    ThisBass

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2012
    Location:
    Germany
    That's right for steady VA


    current is increasing slightly, whereas VA is slightly reduced.
    But I would not bother about it.

    That means the transformer is designed for 50Hz.
    That means we are talking about a 50Hz transformer, but not 60Hz.
     
  14. megafiddle

    megafiddle

    Joined:
    May 25, 2011
    Switching power supplies do not have 50 or 60 Hz transformers. The main line feeds
    a high voltage DC supply directly (rectifier and filter). The actual step down transformer
    operates at the high switching frequency. That's why it can be so small.
     
  15. ThisBass

    ThisBass

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2012
    Location:
    Germany
    That's right but, I did not hooked up the transformers VA capacity vers. frequency. :D

    BTW SMPS is a very old technique in industries in the meanwhile (since early 70's as far as I know).
     
  16. agedhorse

    agedhorse Development Engineer-Mesa, Product Support-Genz Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2006
    In addition to additional iron in a 50Hz transformer, there will be additional turns required in the primary (which result in more turns in the secondary to maintain equal ratio). The required turns per volt of a primary changes with frequency. Failure to design for this can lead to an overheated transformer (even at idle) and one hell of a mess.
     
  17. megafiddle

    megafiddle

    Joined:
    May 25, 2011
    Yes, I was just talking in general, no particular post.
     
  18. seamonkey

    seamonkey

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2004

    Way farther back than that. Old car radio's had vibrator things that essentially worked like an SMPS. Except a relay coil and contacts instead of silicon. Much lower frequency but same idea.
     
  19. ThisBass

    ThisBass

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2012
    Location:
    Germany
    Some words to the transformer purposes.
    Some purpuses like welding demand the full power (100% at constant number) for very long time cycles.
    So there would be a good chance at long term average to overheat the system and burn off the wire.

    By the other hand audio program signals demand full power at the signal peak transients only, so for most audio purposes the long term average power is significant below max. transformer power.

    A good bet is to calculate not more then 1/3 for long term average but, heavily overdriven power amps is a different animal of course (like welding or powering an electric motor).


    Stupid question:
    Transformer power differs depending line frequency. 50Hz amps (EU models) and 60Hz amps (US models) very often used the same transformer. But output power of the amp differs as well by nearly appro 8-10%.
    I'm wondering that manufacturers output power ratings where always just the same for US and export EU models.
     
  20. agedhorse

    agedhorse Development Engineer-Mesa, Product Support-Genz Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2006
    50Hz transformer is a worst case design, somewhat overkill for 60Hz markets. The transfer efficiency may be higher in the 60Hz operation though.

    Power handling of a transformer is different than designing for 50Hz operation. 50Hz operation places different no load conditions on the electromagnetic circuit.
     
  21. play4sanity

    play4sanity

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2012
    Location:
    North Carolina
    From the Markbass Minimark manual:

    and ....


    The power supply appears to be an external unit that is different for each place it's sold. Bad news - it's a crap shoot as to whether it will work or not. Good news - if it does die it will be easier to replace. Good luck with whatever you decide.
     

Share This Page