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A pair of Baer ML112s or an Aguilar DB112/NT stack

Discussion in 'Amps [BG]' started by JeffLieby, Mar 18, 2014.


  1. JeffLieby

    JeffLieby

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2007
    Location:
    Beaumont/Port Arthur, TX
    Amp is an Aguilar TH500.

    I have tried the Aguilar cabs and I do like them, but I keep coming back to the Baer stack in my head.

    What do you think talkbass?
     
  2. Mystic Michael

    Mystic Michael Hip No Ties

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2004
    Location:
    New York, NY
    What does TalkBass think about what? What exactly is the question? :eyebrow:

    MM
     
  3. JeffLieby

    JeffLieby

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2007
    Location:
    Beaumont/Port Arthur, TX
    Should I get a pair of Baer ML 112s or an Aguilar DB112 & a 112 NT?

    Like I said, I have played the Aguilar set and like it. I am just wondering if the Baer set up will be better and worth the minimal extra coin.

    Are the tonal profiles fairly similar other than the tweeter content on the Aguilar.

    My amp is a TH500 and I like the idea of the paper cone grind on the Baer cabs.

    If it helps I primarily play a kind of heavy country/rock music and modern worship.

    I can get a set of the Aguilar cabs for considerably, read around $500, cheaper though.

    My question was simply, which would you go for?
     
  4. svtb15

    svtb15

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2004
    Location:
    Austin,TX- New York,NY
    Disclosures:
    Endorsing Artist:Alleva-Coppolo| MESA |Genz-Benz R.I.P.|REDDI|Westone
    I had DB112s and seemed i was spending time always twisting knobs.. I have heard friends with the Baer ML 112.. Thats what i would get...Baer ML 112
     
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  6. nostatic

    nostatic Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2004
    Location:
    los angeles, CA
    Disclosures:
    Endorsing Artist: FEA Labs, Jule Amps
    Baer are more articulate and easier to carry.
     
  7. JeffLieby

    JeffLieby

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2007
    Location:
    Beaumont/Port Arthur, TX
    Good info! I like articulate and easier to carry!
     
  8. bherman

    bherman Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2009
    No brainer for me. I had the Aggies, too muddy for me and always seemed to have to push them to get heard. Now using a pair of Baers (same amp, Streamliner 900) and couldn't be happier. My compulsive gear-buying addiction is over.
     
  9. Jared Lash

    Jared Lash Casting out the nines Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Location:
    Northern California
    I suppose it depends on the tone you want.

    The DB112 is very present in the mid mids. Very punchy. And without the tweeter they are shy on treble content giving an overall old school type tone. My favorite amp with a pair of DB112s was (not surprisingly) the Aguilar AG500. Whether it pairs as well with the TH500 I don't know as I haven't tried that combo.

    The Baer has a big but tight low end, very neutral through the low and mid mids with a bit of grind around 1.5kHz or so. And nice high end extension from the 6" mid speaker that give definition and fullness to high notes though without giving the sparkle or "air" of a tweeter loaded cab.

    For me the Baer is the clear choice as I also found myself doing more EQing with the Aggies while the Baers were simple to dial in. In general I found the ML112s to match well with most heads where the Aggies matched great with some and not well with others.

    The Baer's are slightly larger cabs though I prefer the form factor vs how deep the DB112s are. The Baers are 8 lbs lighter which is nice but not a big enough difference to choose one over the other.
     
  10. nostatic

    nostatic Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2004
    Location:
    los angeles, CA
    Disclosures:
    Endorsing Artist: FEA Labs, Jule Amps
    It isn't so much the weight as the handle placement and the box size/orientation. The DBs are a pita to haul, the ML112, not so much.
     
  11. bherman

    bherman Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2009
    Agree, the DBs seemed designed to bang up your legs. I also found that the rear porting made them difficult to eq in some rooms (forget about outside!) The Baers almost seem to eq themselves - very much a "can do no wrong" design. They always sound great.
     
  12. Big String

    Big String Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2000
    Location:
    Northwest Indiana
    I had a pair fo DB112 years back but no TH500. I do believe that many times there is a synergy with like manufacturer gear. Short of that I sold them.. heavy cumbersome to schlep at least for me. Thats not a knock either.

    I currently have one ML112 and just sold my TH500. I like the TH enough but I didn't feel that it drove the single ML enough to suit me. Some may disagree with me but IMO a single ML112 likes lots of power, and that is not to say they are not efficient. I confess I didn't gig test with the set up but at one rehearsal I couldn't get what I wanted even in that setting.. kinda had the 'blanket over the cab' thing going on. Some folks love the combination and do lots of their gigs with just one ML112.

    The ML112 isn't a tiny cab for a 112 box but its really well made and also very revealing. Because of its size I'm not sure I really want or need two at the moment. I'm using a GK MB Fusion 800 and the ML112 totally loves the extra watts. This is my first GK amp and I'm still getting used to it to be truthful.

    I don't know if my response helps you at all but all the gear mentioned here is very good. One other thing, you're individual bass/basses, playing style, technique, and gig situation will ultimately give you your answer. You really have to try and then take with a grain of salt what others opinions are. You knew that right :) Me, I'm always asking TB'rs questions and much of it helps. Good Luck!
     
  13. svtb15

    svtb15

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2004
    Location:
    Austin,TX- New York,NY
    Disclosures:
    Endorsing Artist:Alleva-Coppolo| MESA |Genz-Benz R.I.P.|REDDI|Westone
    The Aguilars without a tweeter are a dark sounding cab.. and with the tweeters turned on it seem to have a HOLE in the sound that make the tweeter float over the 12..
    The Bear is easier to move from what my bud has told me.. and smoother from top to bottom.. And from when i briefly joined him on stage to test run them
    I think the Baer is easier to EQ. Where I said earlier , when i had the Aggys , all i did was twist knobs to get it to sound even... And i could never get a smooth tone. Tweeter run at about 9 oclock on the rear of the cab. ( if not it gets too spiky)
    Heads that i used with it , Thunkerfunk, Alembic F2B/Crown MA1200, API pre/crown, Vintech 1073/crown amp, Genz Benz Shuttle 9, 12, streamliner 900, Fender TB1200 and SVT, ..

    Baer just seems to sound great with everything set at noon. Tweak a little to get to what you need....
     
  14. JeffLieby

    JeffLieby

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2007
    Location:
    Beaumont/Port Arthur, TX

    Well, I definitely trust your opinion because you were one of the reasons I decided to get my REDDI and that thing kills!
     
  15. jasonbraatz

    jasonbraatz

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2000
    Location:
    San Francisco, CA
    I went from a GS112 stack to an ML112 stack last year. The ML's were significantly louder, more even sounding, and just "more" of everything while also being lighter and easier to schlep.
     
  16. g4string

    g4string Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2002
    Location:
    McKinney, TX
    copied from a post by me a few years ago…..

    On to the DB112 vs ML112 comparison with the TH500 I promised to write. 1st off, I know there is a disparity in weight between the two cabs. I will say the "schlep" feels the same on both cabs due to handle placement. In that regard, it's a wash to me. If I had the cabs side-x-side, I am sure you could feel the ~8lb difference...but again, I think the Aggie has an easier schlep factor due to its handle placement.

    I will say this about the Baer's....the vinyl they use is faaaar superior to the vinyl on the Aggie. It's waaay more heavy duty and thus far more resistant to scratches, dings, dents, etc. I could see myself doing my DB's in the Baer vinyl when/if they get dinged up. I do like Aggie's grill cloth for that vintage look though. Although, the Baer's have a gotham stealthness about them that is appealing too. Visually, both cabs are stunning. Nod kinda goes to Aggie for pure eye candy.

    Sonically, with the TH500, they are more similar than different. I think this is mainly due to the TH500. I will say my use with both cabs are solely with the TH500. The similarities I hear is prob due to that baked-in chewy/wooly Aguilar mid present growl. Actually, I am certain that is the what I am hearing. Both cabs exhibit somewhat bad "bedroom tone" (with the TH500) but absolutely 100% shine in the mix. Got mudd, got boom, got a bad mix....TH500 + DB112 or ML112 will fix it!!! Again this all partly due to that baked-in TH500 tone. I give a slight nod for better bedroom tone to the DB...prob due to it being a tweeter loaded cab. When comparing low/mid/high on both cabs, they will both go as low as "anyone" should need. They will both handle the low B well. The difference between the two is the low end on the Baer seems to be a bit tighter, focused, less cushiony if that makes sense. This can be a good thing or bad thing.....got a boomy room, the tight controlled bottom end of the Baer (with the use of the TH500's semi-para) will help tighten up that room. However, have dry room and need to fatten things up....the DB's will do a much better job than the ML's. I did notice the difference in mid character quite a bit, as I should as the Baer's thing is "mids"....heck, they have a dedicated 6" mid driver for crying out loud, there should a difference!! The difference was the Baer's have an even progression from lows to mids....all the way up the freq slop, it just seems so even and always connected. In conjunction with that controlled 12" driver in the Baer, this is really noticeable and is what makes the Baer a truly amazing cab. I am not saying the DB's lows to mids seems disconnected or non-linear, just saying the Baers do it better. However, when I had the ML's and TH500 together, I sometimes found that mid fwd character of both the ML's and TH was too much of good thing. With the ML and TH, it was kinda hard to dial back that mid fwd sound. The DB + TH has a bit tamer mid voice than the latter. Dont get wrong, the DB TH combo has a nice mid fwd voice....just not as in your face as the ML TH combo. As no surprise, the DB's extend higher than Baer's. I thing the tweet Aguilar uses sounds waaay better in the DB box than it does in the GS box (I know, they are the same tweet). In the GS box, the tweet sounded harsh, brittle, etc, etc....I think this is mainly due to the mid scoop in the GS box. With the DB box, the tweet sounds pretty good. With the TH500, the tweet lets you get some of that SVT-like tube clank when eq'd right, all while never sounding harsh or brittle. Even though the Baer doesn't extend as high as the DB's (duh!), the highs in the ML sound sweeter and more organic. Again, all due to that lovely Fatail 6" mis driver.

    What needs to be understood is the TH500 imparts its tone on any cab with a fair amount of authority. I think that "imprint" works really well with both cabs. Although, I sold my ML's cause I think the mids were too much of a good thing. I think the ML's would have sounded better with a STL900, LMIII, or similar amp. I think the TH500 is a better fit for the DB cabs than the ML's. I think the TH amps were built around being "the right fit" for Aggie's DB cabs. There are things I like about both cabs with the TH500....but all things considered, for performance/price ratio, the DB's are hard to beat.

    I think of it this way....it's like comparing hot rod cars...the DB's are like a 60's/70's all american muscle car where the Baers are like a modern Italian super-performance sports car

    I will say this....I think for use as a standalone, the nod would prob go to the ML. I haven't used the DB as a standalone, so I am just assuming. When I used the Baer's, I normally only needed one. One actually did quite well. I am assuiming this is due to that wonderful 3012 derived Eminence designed neo.



    As far as I am concerned, I still think the DB cabs, when using a pair sound pretty damn good. If you're buying a stack, and plan on using a stack all the time…..my vote is a DB112 pair. If you think you'll split the use, maybe sometimes use one, sometimes use a pair….then maybe I might vote the ML112 pair as 1 ML112 is quite capable of doing standalone duty. A DB112 can do standalone stuff, just not with the authority the ML112 can do. Price wise, a pair of DB112's will run you about $1200 new (MF priced matched TPB's price of $635 and honored their 5% TB discount). That bought the price down to $1206, shipped free. You can find pairs in the classifieds right now for about $900 shipped. A pair of Baers will run you $1400 + shipping. So based on price, a used pair of DB112's is hard to beat. As far as the schlelp factor is concerned, hands down the nod goes to the DB. The Baer places the handle smack dab in the middle top of their cab. Whenever I carried the cab, it always chaffed my leg due to the handle placement…..deep cab, handle in the middle, awkward. The DB's on the other hand place their handle on the side of the cab. Its not as deep of placement which equals a less awkward carry. Granted, you need to add feet to the side of the DB cab's like the Baers. However, I find a pair of DB112's waaaayyy easier to carry than the Baer's. Call me crazy, but I vote DB112's
     
  17. svtb15

    svtb15

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2004
    Location:
    Austin,TX- New York,NY
    Disclosures:
    Endorsing Artist:Alleva-Coppolo| MESA |Genz-Benz R.I.P.|REDDI|Westone
    I am so happy that you like the REDDI...
    :bassist::bassist:

     
  18. KJung

    KJung

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2005
    Location:
    Wisconsin and Upper Michigan
    I love the ML112's and the DB112's. The ML112's are much more similar to the DB112's than the GS112's, and I agree, the ML112 is a MASSIVE improvement over the GS112's, which have a pretty strong scoop in the mid mids, and a LOT of space between the top of the woofer and where the tweeter kicks in.

    As much as I love the DB112's, they are awkward, heavy little buggers to schlep, and their deep front to back format, along with the rear ports, can be a slight issue on small, shallow stages. Note: Port location has virtually NO impact on tone, ability to EQ, or outside performance. The only issue with the rear ports and the deep format is that the cabs must sit a bit away from the wall versus most other cabs.

    If you like the DB's, IMO you will like the ML112's.... the ML's are bright in the upper midrange due to the mid driver (VERY nice sounding mid driver and crossover), and you need to boost the low end a bit more with the ML's, but that powerful OEM 3012HO driver can take it.

    Two of my favorite cabs for a warm, clear, articulate tone that sits in a mix very nicely.

    Edit: To the OP, the Bergantino CN112's kind of sit between the DB112 and ML112.... very lightweight and small, much of that midrange warmth of the DB's along with nice low end extension, and much of the ML112's even but present upper midrange response. IMO, the best cabinet match with the inherent voicing of the TH500 that I've found... it grunts and growls and grinds nicely with the TH500 (my primary rig is a TH500/CN212... light, loud, and 'organic/classic' sounding IMO and IME. If you like a lot of distortion in your sound, hard to beat the wonderful top end of the ML112's Faital mid driver (a thing of beauty). If you like it 'warm but clean' with a touch more extension up top, the CN's are a different thing of beauty!
     
  19. JeffLieby

    JeffLieby

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2007
    Location:
    Beaumont/Port Arthur, TX
    Thank you for your opinions everyone. FWIW, I pulled the rigger on the ML-112 stack. It should be shipping out tomorrow.

    I hope I enjoy them as much as I think I will. If not I should be able to move them fairly easily, as they seem to be in high demand.

    I almost went with the DBs. I found a used NT in my favorite color, White Hot, at a GC near me. I was going to go with that and just buy a new one with the tweet. At the last minute I figured I at least owed it to myself to try the Baer cabs. I figured if I wanted to go with the DBs in the future I could move the Baer cabs and get in to the Aggies pretty easy.
     
  20. KJung

    KJung

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2005
    Location:
    Wisconsin and Upper Michigan
    Enjoy!
     
  21. JeffLieby

    JeffLieby

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2007
    Location:
    Beaumont/Port Arthur, TX
    Thank you Ken. I think I will!
     

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