Anyone just go personal PA > House DI?

Discussion in 'Live Sound [BG]' started by joegrant413, Feb 22, 2014.


  1. joegrant413

    joegrant413

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2009
    Does anyone here just go bass > PA to > house DI in performing?

    I play bass for a worship team. We use IEMs, but I really like having the feel from my bass while I play.

    I want to simplify my setup. When push comes to shove, I realize that thump from the PA matters to me than any effects or amp modeling boxes I have.

    So anyway, does anyone else do this?

    Thanks,
    - Joe
  2. walterw

    walterw Supportive Fender Gold Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2009
    what do you mean by "personal PA"?

    if it's for your bass, those are known as "bass amps".
  3. Jim Carr

    Jim Carr Dr. Jim Gold Supporting Member

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    Jan 21, 2006
    Location:
    Denton, TX or Kailua, HI
    Disclosures:
    Union card-carrying liberal academic musician

    I want to understand. Do you mean Bass -> DI -> House PA ??? :eyebrow:
  4. bongomania

    bongomania Gold Supporting Member

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    Oct 17, 2005
    Location:
    PDX, OR
    Disclosures:
    owner, OVNIFX and OVNILabs
    It sounds like he means he's using a small PA like a coffeeshop singer-songwriter would use, as a monitor for himself onstage. The way most people use a bass amp.
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  6. joegrant413

    joegrant413

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2009
    Yes, I mean a small PA whose purpose is to shake me. It's OK, in fact better, if it didn't project the sound very far.

    Thanks!
    - Joe
  7. Joe Louvar

    Joe Louvar

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2011
    Location:
    Santa Rosa, CA USA
    PA to PA - no. But bass amp and DI to PA - yes.
  8. derrico1

    derrico1 Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2005
    Location:
    Charlottesville, VA
    Joe, Some bassists achieve this using PA-style cabinets.

    If you already get the tones you want from your pedalboard and pre-amp, you don't need to abandon the front end of your chain. Just run into a power amp and a somewhat uncolored cabinet so that your stage rig tone is similar to the tone you send the FOH desk. If you don't need much volume, you might get by with a QSC K12 or similar. If you need more volume, a more high-performance bass cab could be in your future. It doesn't have to be reference monitor flat, just reasonably honest.

    Another alternative is to add a Buttkicker to your IEM. (Your worship team's leader and FOH mixer might prefer the last option, as it won't add to stage volume, throw off the singers, or blur the low end coherence in the house the way a pants-leg-flapping stage rig can.)
  9. Joe Louvar

    Joe Louvar

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    Jun 6, 2011
    Location:
    Santa Rosa, CA USA
    FWIW: I've seen may different cabs used at churches - But I've never seen anyone using a small personal PA to the FOH in any of the churches here in CA. I'm not saying its never possibly been done, but I haven't seen it, and many churches are moving away for any amps on stage altogether.
  10. oldcatfish

    oldcatfish

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2011
    Sometimes I do the powered monitor thing if I am playing at a church where they don't have a nice in ear systems, but are using electronic drums and the guitars are using POD XT floorboards or something like that. Also use the monitor for acoustic type gigs. I try not to haul out my main rig since I get my main tone through my pedalboard anyway.
  11. derrico1

    derrico1 Supporting Member

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    Apr 12, 2005
    Location:
    Charlottesville, VA
    Yes, obviously many churches are moving toward quieter (or silent) stages, so OP Joe's desire to move air works against the grain. I don't do tons of church gigs and I've done only a few gigs w/ Buttkickers (so grain of salt and all that); but all in all, the Buttkicker approach seems better tailored to low volume worship-team stages.

    To clarify my comment about cabinets, the OP's early thinking seemed to have him leaning toward dumping the front-end of his rig. I want to suggest thinking instead about the transducer(s) in his rig rather than the pre-amps and effects.

    BTW, by PA-style cabs in bass rigs, I don't mean Anthony Jackson sporting Meyer cabs, but bass cabs in the fEarful, Barefaced, Audiokinesis, Carvin LS1503 end of the spectrum—as opposed to, for example, an Ampeg fridge or the Schroeder mid-heavy designs.

    To avoid muddying the OP's waters, I'm also sidestepping the discussion about the value of mid-heavy stage monitoring. If what he wants is some oomph at lower stage volumes, that seems to argue for a cab with solid low-mids—and maybe he could get what *he* wants with a cab that's a low-mid cannon. But a clearer, more evenly voiced cab should keep the stage cab from fighting as much with the church's FOH and stage sound, and so get less in the way of what the rest of the worship team likely wants.
  12. joegrant413

    joegrant413

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2009
    How much do you have to spend for the Buttkicker? I'd be standing on it. Would I need to buy a power amp?

    Thx, Joe
  13. Joe Louvar

    Joe Louvar

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    Jun 6, 2011
    Location:
    Santa Rosa, CA USA
    joegrant413: Why not just use a little bass combo amp pointed at you as your monitor? A little tiny G-K MB110 bass combo would work perfect for that - or maybe you just need better IEM/earbuds?

    EDIT: What size church is this (seats)? And what sound reinforcement do you have - and IEM, Aviom, wireless, etc?
  14. joegrant413

    joegrant413

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2009
    Hi Joe,

    Some more info:
    - Yes, a little bass combo might be the ticket. I was at GC today, and maybe even a $100 to $150 Fender Rumble or Acoustic BA might work.
    - I have IEM-10s earbuds that I don't like. I do use Bose QC-15s that are over-the-ear, and somewhat cock one of the ears to get some stage volume.
    - The IEM house system is Behringer. I don't recall the model.
    - Most times, I can't count on feeling the bass unless I use my QSC K12. On occasion, it's tough to pick the bass out in the mix. On rare occasions, including Christmas Eve, the bass has actually been quite clear to hear without my QSC K12. In other words, the soundboard guy and the setup seem to make a difference.
    - Most of the time, I've been running bass > Tech 21 VT Bass Deluxe > XLR out to house and 1/4 to my QSC K12. Lately, I've been experimenting with using my iPad mini running JamUp Pro, instead of the VT Bass.

    Anyway, that's my story. I'm prompted to seek wisdom from TalkBass to simplify my rig while satisfying the need to hear and feel the bass, and deliver good tone.

    Cheers,
    -- Joe
  15. joegrant413

    joegrant413

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2009
    Oh yeah, the church seats about 250, and we have concert style setup. The praise band is on the stage, and we have big Bose speakers and separate subwoofers in front of us.
  16. Joe Louvar

    Joe Louvar

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2011
    Location:
    Santa Rosa, CA USA
    Yeah, I think so (keep it simple) - that and finding some earbuds that you like better.

    Cheers,
    Joe

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