Discussion in 'Amps [BG]' started by Thor, Jun 3, 2013.
Continued from here:
In. Leaning toward the gk.
I'm in. TC115 Composite Compact!
On the small-cabinet question: second harmonic of the low B and better vertical dispersion than the first-gen TC112 are both important to me, 25-27lb max weight would be nice. Not hot on the suitcase format.
I would use it for about half of my church gigs, dinner music, plus acoustic jams and jazz trios/quartets.
Sorry for the early hijack as I tried to post this in response to several posts made late in the previous thread but it was closed just as I wrote this.
For a smaller, more portable cab than the excellent TC112, you might check out Greenboy's Fearless 110. It provides excellent disbursement, clean true tone all over the spectrum, and tighter lows than the Fearful line. At 8ohms with 500 watts from my Puma 900, it gets as loud or louder than a good 210. Dimensions: 17.5" tall x 13.5" wide x 15" deep; it can also be used as a monitor as that's included in the form factor. Weight is 31lbs. It's my go-to gig cab for my jazz combo. I've owned the TC115 and love Duke's technology, but sometimes you need to look elsewhere for a different form factor as Duke has acknowledged many times. Unless you're into reinventing the wheel, [to him] it's just not worth the cost of duplication. And now, returning the conversation back to Duke-world....
More details and lots of pics here:
I would love to see a 115 with deep lows, yet tight. Like a Bagend with some extended lows... that could extend up to maybe 7k or so... and be able to displace some air... and have good mids... Not too hifi though
My pair of TC112s driven by a Genz Benz ShuttleMAX 12.2. Perfection!
Digging my Hathor a lot. I finding that it's changing my choices in dirt that I use. Going from a horn/midrangeless cab to the Hathor has seen me going away from my current fuzz choices and more to my overdrive pedals. An obviously excellent cab, but still not sure if its the best choice for me yet.
Thank you PDGood and Rcolie for your input on the smaller, portabler cab back at the tail end of the other thread. PDGood, I hope whatever I end up doing isn't too big for your needs, as you were one of the initiators of this.
Steve Rolfeca, thanks for reinforcing the low-B target, as well as improved vertical dispersion.
I looked into the Kappalite 3010LF woofer, and except for its more compact frame I don't think it really offers any significant advantages over the 3012LF. It's less efficient, has lower max SPL, I don't like its T/S parameters as much, and it upper range is so rough that, unless that's your target, it pretty much has to be a three-way. As a result, Greenboy's 110 weighs as much as my 112 and costs more. I'm sure it's a great little cab and its reduced height relative to mine does make it more portable, but I can't see adding something like that to my lineup when the TC112 is already in it.
Can you explain what you mean by "not too hifi"?
These days I'm leaning more towards doing cabs that trade off some low end extension for tightness. For instance the TC115 was -2 or -3 dB at the first overtone of low-B, depending on whether widebody or compact, but I've prototyped an 8-ohm version based on the Kappalite 3015 (non-LF) that is -4.5 dB at the first overtone of low-B and I might like it better because of its tightness.
I just woke up. late night so i hope i am semi clear right now..
I guess i wouldn't need a tweeter extending all the way out to 18k... If the highs went up to 7-8k and transitioned smoothly.. Thats about all i need... I have always liked Paper cones over tweeters that i have heard
I don't really like a mid scoop tone with super hi's poking out at you,,
I sort of dig the organic Bag End cabs response,they seem pretty tight.... but for me they roll off the top and bottom a touch too early IMO..
I like a top end ,but not up to where only dogs can hear it... I play rock , pop, RnB, country, some funk and if required metal
I find some 115 cabs have a peaky mid that can be honky sounding at times.... would love to smooth that out, go fairly deep without rumble and have top end that in airy with finger playing but not tick tacky clicky his with the amp set relatively flat..
I like 115s over 410s consumer products because to me 410s seem to sound weird as if there is some cancellation.. Maybe it is due to the 4 speakers cancelling each other in the mids? i dont know.. But i like that a 115 does not seam to do that .. Nor does a pair of 115s stacked
I played a small Meyer rig years ago on a string of gigs.. it was great. BUT impossible to be able to afford that on my own dime...or justify it...
Just my wish list...
You've pretty well described Duke's TC cabs - and a lot of my own preferences as well.
I'd just add that excessively high top end seems to originate at the pickups and is reproduced by various cabinets.
yeah, the tc stuff doesn't seem ultra hifi to me either, cause i *really* hate the usual tweeter thing myself. and, the tc115 might have the horn on/off/halfway switches (?), which are pretty useful on the tc112.
That is promising.. What type of VOLUME can one get from only one TC115.. Maybe compared to other cabs that are well known.
I usually play my Passive P basses or Passive Jazz basses Alleva Coppolo runs passive as well as my sadowsky PJ5 also rin passive 90% of the time.. .
The TC115 is no longer available. It will keep up with a good 410 IF you give it enough power (moderate sensitivity). The 'replacement' is the TC212, which sounds quite similar from those who have A/B'd them (the 212 puts out more absolute volume though).
To me, my TC115 is the definition of 'true hi fi'. It extends quite low, has very little midrange bump(s), absolutely NO upper mid rise, and the horn extends all the way up into the upper treble. Two things though, the treble response is VERY smooth... nothing like the sizzle coming out of an SWR or GK cab for example. And, Duke has a treble roll-off switch on the TC cabs that gently rolls off above 4K or so for a more old school sound.
The reason that I'm posting is that if there are two cabs that are at COMPLETE opposite ends of the tonal spectrum, it is the Bag End 115s (all low mid punch, big mid mid spike) and the Thunderchild cabs. Just very, very different.
Getting a bit OT here, but the two cabs that would probably make a Bag End 15 lover happy are either the Bergantino CN212 or the Baer ML212. Both quite punchy down low, both have a nice low mid rise and upper mid rise, and both extend into the treble, but sound very warm and organic. Either cab is a dream with a traditional Fender style instrument IMO.
IMO and IME! I have a clip up comparing the TC115 to the CN212 so you can hear what I'm talking about if you have good phones.
I LOVE my TC115, but it is what it is... a very pure, clean, even 'studio monitor' type vibe. It doesn't grind or particularly 'punch' that hard... just beautiful, clean, open, relatively transparent tone that brings to mind playing out of a good studio monitor.
The first comment above, suggests that you might like Duke's Hathor cab. Similar crazy power handling and uber-controlled low end as his Thunderchild cabs, but with a pair of cone midrange drivers for lots of paper-cone character, and an open but not overly extended top end.
On the other hand, the fact that you dug a Meyer setup suggests that you would REALLY like a Thunderchild. Much, much sweeter-sounding than you would expect from that big ol' radial horn. As Ken points out, a real studio monitor vibe, with a beautifully smooth upper midrange, and very even, wide dispersion. None of the beaming you get from a 4*10.
Either a used TC115, or the new TC212 could do you very nicely.
The subject hasn't come up for a while so I didn't volunteer an update, but it sort of has now, so here goes:
I do make a TC115-8, using the stock Kappalite 3015 (non-LF) woofer. With two ports plugged the voicing is definitely on the tight side of the spectrum. The low end is -4.5 dB at the first overtone of low-B, with no upper bass hump. That means you can crank in a bit of EQ if needed without making the upper bass boomy. And even though x-max is less than that of the 4-ohm custom Kappalite variant I was using in the original TC115, with the two-ports-plugged tuning, excursion-limited power handling is back up there in the 500 watt ballpark.
Switches include the top-end rolloff switch that KJung described, and a midrange-smoother switch as well (the stock Kappalite 3015 has some decent bumpage going on in the upper midrange so it can deliver a bit of the gnarly, if the switch is set accordingly).
Thank you Duke , Ken and Steve.. All great info for me to ponder and sift through... It has helped alot..
I dont wind up doing all one style it seems these days.. The Hathor seems cool because im guessing it can get some growl from it if you really lean on it ... And at time is like the growl.. Something that Meyer did not do..
mmmm m Hathor or TC115-8
i think you're friends with d lutz? he has a tc115, you could ask him.
OK---I'm not making TC's anymore (no more composite and Duke does all of the wood builds) so I can say anything I please.
I think that the Tc115 with the regular 3015 is a great idea. It'll be a big change from the 4 ohm version. Much punchier. A bit more upfront mids. I haven't heard it but I think I can interpolate what it'll be like.
The 3015 non LF 8ohm model changes everything. My guess is, you would totally dig that one!
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