Avatar B210 Research Info - Kappa vs. Delta vs. Neo (Here you go, hope it helps)

Discussion in 'Amps [BG]' started by Modern Growl, Sep 7, 2005.


  1. Modern Growl

    Modern Growl Supporting Member

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    Here’s (HOPEFULLY) all the info you need regarding the Avatar B210 cabinet decision a lot of us had to make. Hopefully this info makes the decision easier. I went with the Kappa Pro for the below reasons.
    There 2 main contributions to their tone, the woofer itself, and the length of the port. They use a shelf porting style. The length of the shelf port has a good factor in the tone. The longer the shelf port, the deeper the low end. The shorter the shelf port the more punch you get from enclosure. Per Avatar, they used different port lenths for the diffrent speakers becuase they feel each speaker benifited most from the lenght choosen.

    I've done my homework and here's what I've come up with. Hopefully it helps some out there.

    B210 Neo - $269.00 - 40Hz - 3.5kHz - Freq. Response – Weight 44lbs – 600 watts
    Longest Shelf Port of the 3. – Deepest low end of the 3 due to shelf length along w/ 40Hz response. Lacking mids compared to both Delta and Kappa. Also a little ‘sloppy’. Neo speaker doesn’t react as quickly. Lightest of the 3, and best bottom of the 3.

    B210 Delta $229.00 - 65Hz - 3.5kHz Freq. Response – Weight 55lbs – 700 watts
    Middle Length Shelf Port of the 3. – Bottom is “so/so” due to Middle Length Shelf but 65Hz is not so good though when using as a stand-alone. More of a mid-driver. (Some say cab suffers due to 65Hz low end) Tight, Lots of Punch, with good midrange.
    Weight is average

    B210 Kappa Pro - $279 - 45Hz - 3kHz Freq. Response – Weight 64lbs – 1000 watts
    Shortest Length Shelf Port of the 3 – Bottom is very good due to 45Hz Response. Pairing up with the short length port, which adds Midrange punch, you have a great cabinet that has a loads of punch with a great low-end response. (Comments from Avatar) – “Kappa does everything that the Delta does in terms of punch, but does even more due to lower frequency response” “Our best 2x10” Heaviest of the 3.
     
  2. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice

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    I can't comment on the implementation of the drivers by Avatar, but if you want to see how they compare from a basic engineering standpoint go to the Eminence site and look at the SPL charts and T/S specs posted there. They fairly well predict your observations.
     
  3. Modern Growl

    Modern Growl Supporting Member

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    Yeah, going to eminence.com is helpfull. I figured I'de throw in the diffrent ports as well.
     
  4. GSPLBASSDC

    GSPLBASSDC

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    Good data!!!!..... but you've got the wattages reveresed on the Delta and NEO. The Delta is 700 watts and the NEO is 600 ;)
     
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  6. MichaelVee

    MichaelVee Supporting Member

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    If you read the 2x10 cab descriptions on the Avatar website, they don't say anything about the cabinets of the three 2x10 models differing from each other. (Those descriptions DO need to be updated, but that's another topic.)

    Other talkbassers have been saying for some time that the 2x10 models all use the same cabinet, it's the 10s they are loaded with that are different.

    Did you get those shelf port depths from Dave Noss, Growl?
     
  7. Modern Growl

    Modern Growl Supporting Member

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    updated. thanks!
     
  8. Modern Growl

    Modern Growl Supporting Member

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    No, I recieved that info directly from Luke at Avatar Speakers. Its not listed on the website, but they do in fact differ from eachother, again, per Luke.
     
  9. Modern Growl

    Modern Growl Supporting Member

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    this is also confirmed with dave at avatar
     
  10. BillyB_from_LZ

    BillyB_from_LZ Supporting Member

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    That's pretty wild that they'd basically give away the non-obvious design difference.

    However, you can't hardly build a clone for what they sell the real McCoy for, so I doubt that they have much to worry about.
     
  11. Modern Growl

    Modern Growl Supporting Member

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  12. Daytona955i

    Daytona955i Supporting Member

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    I'm just curious, I know Dave uses special order Delta 10's, did you get the data from the Eminence site or from him? I thought the Delta 10's could go lower into the frequency range then that.
     
  13. Modern Growl

    Modern Growl Supporting Member

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    As far as I know, (and I could be wrong) Dave uses the standard Delta 10's from the website. The stats listed earlier were directly from Eminences website.
     
  14. Daytona955i

    Daytona955i Supporting Member

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    I don't think he uses the standard Delta 10's. I remember reading it numerous times on TB. For instance the ones he uses have blue dust caps on them. I also seem to remember reading that the ones he use have a different Xmax too.

    Although I suppose I could be wrong.
     
  15. GSPLBASSDC

    GSPLBASSDC

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    True....Dave has most of the drivers custom built. The xmax is around 50% longer than the standard Eminence driver
     
  16. Modern Growl

    Modern Growl Supporting Member

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    does anyone know what the frequencie responses are then from all the B210's so I can update the info above ??
     
  17. Daytona955i

    Daytona955i Supporting Member

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    Sure. Dave does. :D
     
  18. Joe P

    Joe P

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    Cooool!

    We should have this kind of info on ALL'of'em!!

    Thanks, Growl -

    Joe
     
  19. Joe P

    Joe P

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    ...Oh - and if this would help also: Efficencies for the STOCK models, as per the Emminence site...

    These numbers are the average of frequencies up to 500Hz on their chart:
    Neo = 94.5
    Delta = 96.2
    KappaPro = 95.8

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Of the pro/stage speakers that we usually talk about, the most efficient is the Kappa Pro 15, at 98.7.

    The least efficient is the Delta 15, at 93.3

    That's pretty dramatic, considering that they're both comparable 15s that any of us might use for bass guitar. That's very-nearly 6dB -- it's like switching between a 300W amp, and a 1200W amp, just by plugging-in a different speaker!

    ...Or you could think of it as though it's potentially turning your 300W amp into a 75W amp, if you switch from the Kappa to the Delta!
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Joe
     
  20. cheezewiz

    cheezewiz Supporting Member

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    Wow...thats incredibly inefficient. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't most quality cabs in the area of 100db or above?
     
  21. Modern Growl

    Modern Growl Supporting Member

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    Hey you, get off my thread! :mad:

















    lol...... just joking man, no problems here! :cool:
     

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