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Bebop Scales over ii V's

Discussion in 'General Instruction [BG]' started by davidhilton, Dec 25, 2013.

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  1. davidhilton

    davidhilton Supporting Member

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    Hey All,
    Here's a video using bebop scales to solo over ii-7 V7 Imaj7 chord progressions. Hope its helpful. -d
  2. LazyGecko

    LazyGecko

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    :D this is great!!
  3. davidhilton

    davidhilton Supporting Member

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    Hey lazygeko,
    I have more if u think people are interested. I also teach in LA and do Skype lessons all over the country.
    -d
  4. LazyGecko

    LazyGecko

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    Definitely. Bebop scales are just great for soloing and I don't know why people on the Internet don't talk about them as much as they should haha. This video is also great and it is obvious you know what you're doing IMO.
  5. basschanges

    basschanges Supporting Member

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    The more bassists that really know how to play over changes comfortably the better. I prefer using an interval/arpeggio approach, but I've been told I'm extremely old school. Point is, you're spreading valuable info that wayy too few bassists have internalized. Amazing stuff.
  6. davidhilton

    davidhilton Supporting Member

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    interval arpeggio approach is cool too. Bebop scales are just one way to hit the changes. I was actually responding to someone asking about "blanketing" on chord changes. I interpreted "blanketing" as finding one chord scale to fit over all the diatonic changes. There r many many ways to approach soloing over changes...Bop scales r just one way...
    -d
  7. Stick_Player

    Stick_Player

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    Don't put too much into these so-called "bebop scales" (or modes for that matter). This label came long after the fact.

    Bird, Dizzy, Stitt, Gordon, etc. were far more into the melody, arpeggios (the extensions), substitutions et al - NOT playing Bebop scales.

    The "this chord goes with that scale" thing is an academic teaching tool used in Jazz College. It doesn't make a good improvisor. But, you'll sound impressive talking about it at a cocktail party.

    :D
  8. davidhilton

    davidhilton Supporting Member

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    Dude, whats up with u man? Why u dissing bop scales? who do u think we learned them from? do u even know what I'm referring to?
  9. vin*tone

    vin*tone Supporting Member

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    Awesome stuff.
  10. Nick303

    Nick303

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  11. Stick_Player

    Stick_Player

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    "Dude"

    Love that bit. :D

    Dude, did you READ my post? I gave you my view point. Grow up and deal with it

    You apparently "learned" them out of a "How to Improvise" Jazz College text book. These "Bebop" scales are fabrications of David Baker's, used as a teaching tool to describe and/or analyze a previous style of music. The original Bop improvisors had NO such labeling.

    Yes. Perhaps you need to dig further into the past so that you "know what I'm referring to".

    Have a Happy 2014!
  12. henry2513

    henry2513 Supporting Member

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    Who cares? They are a useful tool if you choose to use them. Does it matter whether or not someone used a hand saw or power saw to build a house? The end result is the same.

    This kind of argument is only important to "jazz historians" not players.
  13. Violen

    Violen Instructor in the Vance/Rabbath Method Supporting Member

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    Disclosures:
    Endorsing Artist: Conklin Guitars (Basses)
    The more tools you have in the toolbox, the better you will be at handling any situation. Working through the video now.

    Thanks!
  14. narud

    narud Supporting Member

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    being into the melody,arpeggios and substitutions arent going to make you a good improviser either. being a good improvisor makes you a good improviser. the academia isnt what makes you a player imo.

    i guess sounding condescending in scale/chord relationship threads makes you sound impressive on internet forums?:D
  15. Stick_Player

    Stick_Player

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    Correct.

    So you are either born with it or not? Nature over nurture?

    I believe these to be the truth. But it doesn't fit the business model of teaching jazz improvisation.

    No, it doesn't. Nor at cocktail parties.

    Having said that, I don't believe my initial post was condescending.
  16. MalcolmAmos

    MalcolmAmos Supporting Member

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    Dude ---? The thing I like most about this forum is we seldom see/hear the word Dude.

    Had completely forgotten about the bebop scale. What I like about it is how it fits with a 4/4 or 8 to the barre beat.
    Code:
    Major Scale Box. 
    Code:
    G|---2---|-------|---3---|---4---| 1st string
    D|---6---|--b7---|---7---|---8---|
    A|---3---|---4---|-------|---5---|
    E|-------|---R---|-------|---2---|4th string
    
    R-2-3-4 and then 5-6-b7-7.  Notice the D string; lot of launching can be
    done from the D string.  Help yourself to the 8 and then grab the rest on
    the G string. 
    All kinds of new things to "play" with.
  17. tkozal

    tkozal

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    Most of the horn players I know, educamated by Barry Harris, usually refer to bebop scales in descending passages only (chord tones on strong beats). As a bass player, I know different rules apply, but Barry Harris would say I was wrong ;-)

    Great stuff BTW

    and people who do crap on chord scale theory on internet forums should just pause, and then not press the "post quick reply" button. We would all benefit.
  18. Ed Fuqua

    Ed Fuqua

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    Sweet!
  19. Stick_Player

    Stick_Player

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    Exactly.

    The "extra" note is a Passing tone to a Chord tone.

    Since there seems to be a feverish interest in Bebop Scales:

    Major Bebop has the Augmented Fifth added. It comes from the Relative Melodic Minor.

    Example: Fmaj7 -- F, G, A, Bb, C, C#, D, E, F (refer to D Melodic Minor)

    Dominant Bebop has the Major Seventh added. The Leading Tone to the Root of the Dominant Chord. Refer to the V7/V.

    Example: Ab7 -- Ab, Bb, C, Db, Eb, F, Gb, G, Ab

    Dorian Bebop has the Major Third added.

    Example: F#m7 -- F#, G#, A, A#, B, C#, D#, E, F#

    Starting on ANY chord tone one can ascend or descend an equal valued rhythm (i.e., eight 8th notes) and play a chord tone on the beats and passing tones on the upbeats.

    There is enough information as to the theory of why a particular note is added, if one is interested. Check the vast Internet. One'll have more fodder to munch on.

    There are Bebop variations on the Minor Scales, as well.

    Simply a "newer" label to explain Passing Tones.
  20. Blackbird

    Blackbird Moderator Supporting Member

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    Hello, everyone.

    This is an important discussion and I don't want to derail this thread.

    That being said, I want to remind all interested parties that explaining one's own methods will be more helpful to the OP than putting down other people's. Same goes for other threads and forums.

    Carry on...
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