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Bergantino HT-322. Is there a modern equivalent?

Discussion in 'Amps [BG]' started by Lorenzini, Apr 3, 2014.


  1. Lorenzini

    Lorenzini

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2004
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    I sold my Berg years ago and regret it. Paired with a GK 1001rb-ii it was the best sound I ever got. Warm, punchy, nasty, full range in every sense of the word.

    What is the current modern day equivalent -- regardless of brand?

    PS I currently play through Aguilar gear and love them (GS410/DB410), but nothing has ever satisfied me like a good old HT-322.

    Thanks!
     
  2. Passinwind

    Passinwind Charlie Escher Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2003
    Location:
    Columbia River Gorge, WA.
    I played through an HT-322 at a GTG and enjoyed that a lot. You just might dig Duke's new Hathor 1855, unless you want to maintain that hernia inducing form factor...;)
     
  3. Lorenzini

    Lorenzini

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2004
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    I should check that out... But wait, no tweet or horn? Might have a hard time with that.
    You mean the HT-322 had a bad form factor? Heavy? What? :bag:
     
  4. KJung

    KJung

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2005
    Location:
    Wisconsin and Upper Michigan
    The simple answer is 'no', since no two cabs sound alike. However, here are some options that will get you into the general tone universe of the HT322 (I gigged the modular HT322 for a year or two).

    1) The closest would be the recently discontinued HT112ER/EX112ER stack. Same tweeter (that super extended hi fi top end), similar dip in the upper mids, making the top end sound sweet, and similar meaty low end.

    2) The HD112 x 2 or HD212 that Jim currently offers is the same box and woofer as the above described HT112 ER, but with a different crossover and tweeter. So, down low, quite similar. Up top, more warm and relaxed and organic sounding versus the uber hi fi of the HT322 and HT112ER. That might be a positive, might not. The HD212 is about 20% smaller and about 20 pounds lighter than the HT322

    3) Audiokinesis TC115. The current model is 8ohms. Very lightweight, half the size, similar sweet extended top end, and if you have an amp that gets an honest 400+ watts into it at 8ohms, and a good low mid control to dial up the meat in the low mids a bit, it might make you quite happy

    4) fEARful 15.6 or 1212.6 (both with tweeter) and WITH THE UPDATED TRUE 3 WAY crossover (or the equivalent fEARless cabs.... a bit smaller with a different mid driver). Big down low, extended up top, and relaxed in the mid-mids. You would have to have an amp with good control of the upper mids to dial that back a touch to emulate the sweet top end of the HT322, but if so, again, might make you happy.

    Any of these cabs with the MBF800 would probably make you quite happy. However, none of the current models have that super sweet, super extended top end. The closest there is the Audiokinesis (or the HT112ER stack if you can find one used)

    IMO and IME. Just some ideas to get you started, and for other TBers to react to, agree or disagree with!
     
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  6. jeff7bass

    jeff7bass

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2009
    Checkout some of these sound samples from Xsonics. The one that amazes me is at the bottom where the guy is playing through a little 10", 3-way BEAST. I can't believe the tone and output from this little cab. Two of them would kill.

    http://xsonics.com/demos-reviews/
     
  7. KJung

    KJung

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2005
    Location:
    Wisconsin and Upper Michigan
    Have you ever played an HT322? (Edit: What I mean is that clip sounds killer, but given the target of that cab builder (the Eden XLT line), that tone is closer to the Berg CN212 than the very wide, very smooth, very mid relaxed HT322. I personally dig the punch and grind in that that clip (sounds great), but that is not really what the HT322 to about IMO).
     
  8. jeff7bass

    jeff7bass

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2009
    No but I stood in front of a guy who was playing through one for about an hour. Nice cab. Small, clear, plenty of focus yet still kinda warm.
     
  9. Passinwind

    Passinwind Charlie Escher Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2003
    Location:
    Columbia River Gorge, WA.
    Cool. When I heard the HT-322 the highs must have been completely dialed out, it sounded nothing like what you described. ;)

    Given that new information, Duke's new Thunderchild 118 has the nicest and most extended highs of any of his cabs that I've heard, but I haven't heard the new TC115 yet. The TC215 sounds a lot like your description of the 322 too. And agreed, nothing sounds just like anything else.
     
  10. KJung

    KJung

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2005
    Location:
    Wisconsin and Upper Michigan
    It had a BIG dip in the upper mids for sure, and then extended WAY up in the upper treble. The 'least grindy' cab I've ever owned (like Duke's original TC cabs... very clean and pure up top), and almost the definition of hi fi that many of us use on TB... nice deep low end extension, a very even mid midrange that is in a low ratio to the deeper low end, a BIG dip in the upper mids that allows that sweet, sizzly, modern upper treble to kind of float about the cab... IMO.

    Yeah, if you dial the tweeter down on the HT322, it sounds like a subwoofer! Even with the tweeter dialed up, depending on the bass and amp, the top end could get pretty buried in a mix IMO and IME... lots of energy above 10K, not much between 2-5K to my ear. I fixed that (kind of), by switching out the 12" only cab (EX112s) on my 'S' stack to the HT112s, which had the full two way design... so basically an HT322 with two tweeters! Top end still got buried in the mix IMO and I moved on. I need my upper mids!

    Edit: That TC118 looks pretty killer. Haven't heard it at this point. I know some of Duke's new cabs are voiced to be a bit 'dirtier' in the upper mids (I like that!), and IMO that is kind of the opposite of the HT322 to my ear.
     
  11. Doug Parent

    Doug Parent Gold Supporting Member

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    May 31, 2004
    Location:
    San Diego, Ca.
    Matt what are you missing that the Aggie rig doesn't give you? Is it the top end? Lows?
     
  12. Passinwind

    Passinwind Charlie Escher Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2003
    Location:
    Columbia River Gorge, WA.
    The 1855 can make some grind it the upper mids, for sure, I think all the Hathors do. Duke's doing switches to smooth that as desired though. Definitely not my thing at all, as for me fretless basses already tend to make all the midrange distortion I'd ever want all on their own. As you often say, too much of a good thing. The HT line have always been my favorite Bergs just for that reason, and that's also why the TC112 is my daily driver.

    I'm pretty sure the one at the Seattle GTG was the first TC118 built to this spec. We heard everything from 6 string Bongo metal to electric violin to my EUB through it, and there's no way you'd parse an 18 being in that cab in a blind test unless and until you cranked the lows way hard. ;)
     
  13. Doug Parent

    Doug Parent Gold Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2004
    Location:
    San Diego, Ca.
    +1
    I heard a HT322 couple months ago and I was surprised at how much low end was coming from that cabinet. Those ten's are really high excursion and dark sounding compared to just about anything else with tens I can think of.
     
  14. Jim Carr

    Jim Carr Dr. Jim Gold Supporting Member

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    Jan 21, 2006
    Location:
    Denton, TX or Kailua, HI
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    AFM 72-147 union card-carrying liberal academic musician
    +1

    Sorry for the big snip...all are super ideas. I loved the HT322, and think my 15/6/1 can come close with enough power, like the M9 or the GK MB800. The updated crossover is probably in my future, just because I'm curious. :D
     
  15. Jim C

    Jim C

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2008
    It's my reference cabinet for clarity. I have not had a problem lowering the super high end and boosting the upper mids (both with cab crossover and amp EQ)
    The low end can be a handful with some amps; I remember a particular gig in a very bad room that I just couldn't get the SVT to sound double awesome with this cabinet
     
  16. Lorenzini

    Lorenzini

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2004
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Hi Doug!

    You know, I think what that HT-322 gave me was what seemed like the most bass, most mids and most treble I've ever heard, all at the same time, in an extremely clean way. I can't explain it, because I've only heard it through just that cab.

    Probably it's because, even though most cabs are able to produce a fantastic low mid, high mid and treble, the HT-322 gave all that AND amazing gooey lows, while still being extremely quick.

    My Aggy stuff is incredible, honestly, I do love it.

    I imagine my ideal cab would be a combination of the GS410 and DB410, and THAT would probably sound like an HT-322 :)
     
  17. Lorenzini

    Lorenzini

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2004
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Thanks, very helpful. I should check out the Berg gear you mention.

    That's what I loved about the Berg. Super sweet top end, but with the 2x10's there was a punch that just killed in a mix. My experience, because I see that some have stated the HT-322 was way "dull" up top. Not my experience particularly, but that's what makes the world go!

    Is Accugroove still in business? The El Whappo seems very close...?

    Interesting on the fEarful stuff. Is there a website for that??
     
  18. Arthur U. Poon

    Arthur U. Poon

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2004
    Location:
    SLC, Utah -USA-
    Disclosures:
    Endorsing Artist: Mike Lull Custom Basses
    Hi Ken, was the modular version of the HT322 an HT210/HT115?

    If so, I wouldn't doubt the OP could watch the TB Classifieds, as I see them for sale from time to time.

    I still use my HT210/HT115 setup for Motown-type gigs. Each cab weighs around 50 lbs, I find them fairly easy to schlep.

    Take care, Derwin
     
  19. KJung

    KJung

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2005
    Location:
    Wisconsin and Upper Michigan
    That stack would give you a very similar vibe to the HT322 for sure. Actually, the modular HT322 was just that. It was the HT112s (or EX112s) combined with the HT210s. It wasn't on the market that long, and was put out there for guys who dug the HT322 but found it too brutal to schlep.

    Interestingly, the 10's in the HT322 were the thing that resulted in the deep bass (as posted about by a couple guys above). Massive xmax, super deep voicing. When I used my 's' stack, I actually put the 12 on top so more midrange hit my ear!
     
  20. DukeLeJeune

    DukeLeJeune rational romantic mystic cynical idealist Gold Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2008
    Location:
    Preston, Idaho
    Disclosures:
    Owner & designer, AudioKinesis; Auth. mfg, Big E (Home Audio only)
    For the record, since my cabs came up several times here, the Thunderchild series is voiced fairly smooth, and does not exhibit a significant dip in the upper mids. I take the term "upper mids" to refer to roughly 800 Hz to 2 kHz. My Thunderchild cabs do err a little on the side of dippage between 2 and 3 kHz, but not by much. Some models have switchable emphasis in the 1 to 2 kHz region, which imparts a little bit of growl when engaged, but I don't think any of them have any dippage to speak of in that region. So tonally perhaps my Thunderchild cabs live in the same general neighborhood as the Berg HT322, but they live on different streets. Sounds like the HT322 still gets a lot of love, so once again I tip my virtual hat to Jim.

    You know what might be seriously worth considering is a Flex 210 from Mike Arnopol. Among the other things it does well, this cab offers an enormous amount of voicing flexibility and ime it would come closer than most to doing an HT322 impersonation, but with higher SPL capability and even more impact down low. For those unfamiliar with, don't let the "210" designation put you off - its combination of Kappalite woofers and advanced technology enclosure design make it competitive with an 810 in air-moving capability.
     
  21. Passinwind

    Passinwind Charlie Escher Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2003
    Location:
    Columbia River Gorge, WA.
    The high end on those is pretty relaxed, and mids are a little forward, IME. Mark is back in business as of recently, and I've only heard the old one. I loved my Tri112L, and actually most of the AG cabs, but it seemed a bit different from what you are looking for. Always hard to be sure about that though. IMHO, if you truly love the Berg cab, just find one and call it a day. Anything else will just be a surrogate.

    www.greenboy.us
     

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