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Bergantino vs Schroeder Cabs

Discussion in 'Amps [BG]' started by Nfes64, Jan 17, 2010.

  1. Nfes64

    Nfes64

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    After doing some searching and not coming up with anything, I wanted to ask those who have heard both on their opinions:

    How does something like a Schroeder 1212L (or the new BMF version) compare to a Bergantino AE210, both sound wise and in terms of volume?

    The AE210 is £100 more brand new in the UK, but the shop that stocks their gear is just down the road so I'll be able to try them out, whereas it would have to be a blind purchase on the Schroeder. I'm leaning towards the Schroeder at the minute, simply because its cheaper, and from what I read its more efficient.

    I'll be playing through a Little Mark III, finger style mostly, on a passive '08 Am Standard P-Bass, in small to medium sized indoor venues (tops 200 people).

    Many thanks!
  2. arbitrary

    arbitrary Supporting Member

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    I haven't tried them, but I've heard what makes the schroeders more efficient is that they have a stronger mid range voicing/hump.
  3. Nfes64

    Nfes64

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    Yep, I've read that too, but really want to hear what someone who has heard both thinks!
  4. Infiltration12

    Infiltration12

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    Haven't tried a Bergentino, but Schroeder cabs are crazy efficient. I've played gigs with a GK 400RB running intoit and had plenty of volume. I would be afraid to turn up my Sunn 1200s very much for fear of hearing damage:bassist:

    EDIT: I have a Schroeder 410.
  5. fish slapper

    fish slapper

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    When I bought my Schroe 1210R about 4 years ago I was comparing them with a pair of Berg 12's. What I recall is yes, the Schroeders were more efficient (louder) and more "aggressive." The key to the Schroeder's voicing is the better upper mid response. This allows me to be heard in the band mix without turning up. To be honest, I sometimes don't care for the Schroeder's tone by itself, but put it in the band mix and its nirvana.

    I am currently running it with a Markbass F-1 which is 500 watts (4 ohm) and rarely go over 12 o'clock on the volume for my usual bar band gigs.
  6. bucephylus

    bucephylus Supporting Member

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    I am in the process (meaning I have both but am trying to decide what I can get from them) of switching my "big rig" over from a Berg NV610 driven by a TE Hexavalve to 2- 1212BMF's driven by a GB SM12. Also, I have acquired 2 Schroeder 15L's, and have a GB Shuttle 6 for driving any one of the Schroeders for normal gig situations.

    Here are some thoughts FWIW.

    The Berg cabs are solid, beautifully designed, and sound magnificent. That is a great company with great products. The NV610 has one of the all time great sounds for the bass guitar.

    The Schroeders are well made and well designed; but don't feel quite so solid as the Bergs. OTOH, they are unbelievably light for the power and SPL that they can produce. As previously posted, they have somewhat of a lack of low end pillow, and even tend to sound a little honky on their own with some basses; more true with Fender J style instruments, less so with Bartolini equipped instruments. However, in the mix, this sound really works well. The 1212BMF is more even than the compact or 15 L cabs, and does have more low end response, but it still favors an upper mid character. Boosting the 120 Hz area with a parametric seems to help.

    Two pretty different flavors of cab, as a generalization; both with their merits. I would say the Berg excels for outstanding craftsmanship and balanced tone. The Schroeder excels for portability, relative sound pressure, and cut in the mix. You would kind of need to work with both in some working situations to decide what is best for you.

    All IMO/IME.

    Hope that helps.
  7. Nfes64

    Nfes64

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    Thanks very much for that, very useful comparison! It's difficult to sample both here in the UK. I guess I'll just have to pick one (for £100 less you get a 2x12 Schroeder compared to a 2x10 Bergantino) and go with it, and change down the line to compare...
  8. T. Alan Smith

    T. Alan Smith

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    I've played thru a few Shros but own a Berg. Berg is more my taste. I suppose, if I were playing in a typical rock situation, the Shro would work better. They are nice cabs and worth trying out. I don't think you can go wrong ...as long as you have the understanding their just another tone color to play with in the ol' crayon box.
  9. Tim1

    Tim1

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    I cannot comment on the Schroeder, but Bergs sit in the mix better than any other cabinet I have played. This relates to having used Berg AE112s, NV610 and NV 215s regularly. These are all cabinets that shine and fill in the right frequencies when played in a live situation, and are so far ahead of other cabinets that listening to them has converted a few ither bassists to Bergantino. You can buy a Bergantino confident of top quality and good backup support should you ever need it (which is unlikely).
  10. emblymouse

    emblymouse I Dig A Pony Supporting Member

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    Disclosures:
    Endorsing Artist Lakland**Bag End**Schroeder
    I sold my Berg 210 112 stack for a little Schroeder 1212L after a live outdoor A/B. Since I have gone with 2 Schroeder 15L's.

    I agree with the posters who find these to have less 'pillow' to the lows and the Bergs really do sound better in a vacuum, rich and full. I found the voicing and incredible efficiency of the Schroeders really carve out my space in the mix live. This is where they shine. Yes they are more spartan, but also way lighter and still very bullet proof in the rhino coat.
    Don't judge 'em untiil you gig 'em.
  11. iamdenialNJ

    iamdenialNJ Supporting Member

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    Never played through a Schroeder so my opinion is bias. I do however play through a NV610. I've had several GK's, Hartke's, Eden's, Ampeg's, Ashdown's, and Aguilar's in the past all ranging from fridges to single 12" enclosures. The Berg has had more punch and clarity than any of my cabs in the past. The only thing I would do to my rig is add a NV215 :smug:
  12. Washishimi

    Washishimi Supporting Member

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    I've owned and gigged both brands . Particularly the Bergantino AE410. Sweet, sweet cab. I currently own and gig the Schroeder 410BMF. Why? I don't really know. lol. Both are great cabs, and neither has a down side for me. I would agree the the Bergs have superb construction, but my current 410BMF is top notch as well (the coating on the Schroeder is definitely tougher than the Bergs coating IME). Both are light weight (the Schroe being about 10lbs lighter) about the same size, cut through the mix very well, and get very loud. I've dealt with both Jim and Jorg, and both are fantastic to work with. Both cabs shine in a live setting. I think using the Schroeder in a live, loud setting is what sealed the deal for me. But I really don't think you could go wrong with either. For me it is splitting hairs. Glad I could be of no help at all to you. :)
  13. KJung

    KJung Supporting Member

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    +1 I have a 115L+ for smaller gigs, and the wonderful AE410 for larger ones. Both are great, both very punchy and articulate. I give the nod to Jim B. for top notch construction and a bit more even voicing, and the nod to Jorg for stupid lightweight and massive SPL from a small box that still provides usable low end.

    Both are great IMO and IME, and like any other line of cabs, I have favorites and 'dislikes' within each brand.
  14. bucephylus

    bucephylus Supporting Member

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    After messing with both cab/amp setups this weekend, I would have to generalize that my Tobias' with the Bartolini electronics sound MUCH better through the GB/Schroeder rigs than the the Fender J's. The Fender sounds better through the Berg setup.

    More or less goes to show that it is hard to describe one piece of gear without the rest of the instrument being present.

    If nothing else, this has revitalized my interst in the Tobias basses. Maybe I'll take the 6 out to the next gig.
  15. sratas

    sratas

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    Hi. I have recently owned a Scro 1212L for 8 months and now I own a Berg AE210, so I think to be able to compare these two side by side.
    When discussing on sounds, it is always better to specify the technique, genre etc. I play my own music, that is a sort of ambient rock with massive use of leading fingerstyle basslines and piano, synths, eventually guitar etc. A complex mix to cut. I play a Mayones, a Warwick and a Fender jazz trough a Thunderfunk 550B head.

    Scroeder 1212L: very aggressive, the sound is raw, in your face, with a detectable bump in the frequency response ranging from 220 to 500 Hz (I mean, 10-12 dB of bump over the flat response!). This response is achieved mainly by a proprietary construction, resembling a smaller cab. the human ear is very sensitive to midrange frequencies, and so you can hear a very loud sound (efficiency), with great capability to cut trough any mix and hear the pitch of the notes you play. The counterside is that the Scroeder is a one trick pony, you have this particular sound, and only this. If you are not an audiophile guy and prefer to play with the two PUs perfectly blended with a standard powerful rock sound, it can be ok. But do not try to solo the bridge PU for a Jaco tone, because you will hear the same sound as previous, only weaker in the lows. Moreover, the cab in effect lacks some bottom-no pillowy supporting sound here no matter how much bass you are able to boost with your electronics/amps. Moreover, with this kind of frequency personality and humps, certain notes resonate at higher perceived levels compared to other, no matter what dynamic processor you use, because one certain note has the fundamental frequency that is enhanced by that bump in the low mids.

    Bergantino AE210: broader than Schro, with a solid performance in the bass register, a huge sound but refined with a upper midrange-highs definition. The sound is not like any other cab loaded with Neodimium that I have tried. The bass is solid and supporting, even with one cab. The mids are transparent and the overall frequency response is more hi-fi and precise compared to Schroder. This sound is not sterile at all and reacts beautifully with every PU position and Eq setting. In effect, with the Berg you can clearly hear any change in your sound, even the smallest and the cab is a chamaleon. It can roar with a neck PU like a vintage Precision, or produce a Jacoesque sound, or even a pillowy dub sound, mainly changing only the technique on the bass. Slap is gorgeous but I do not slap very much, prefering a warm traditional sound. Yes, warm sound with Neodimium.
  16. jdwinva

    jdwinva Supporting Member

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    In my experience comparing Bergantino to Schroder is like asking to compare a brand new Mazarati with a 74 VW Bug. The Bergantino is king. I've owned both. Yes Schro is loud as hell but sounds like nails on a chalkboard compared to a Bergie.
  17. T. Alan Smith

    T. Alan Smith

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    I've played thru a few Schros, and they're pretty nice cabs...much better than Avatar or Peavey, so I'd liken them to a Chevy/Mercedes comparison.
  18. Washishimi

    Washishimi Supporting Member

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    I'd like to update my comments from a couple of months back, and a few posts above by saying I think I've actually found a cab that I can say that I easily like better than the Bergantino AE410 and the Schroeder 410BMF for that matter. The new Schroeder 101215BMF absolutely kills. More details to come.......
  19. Big String

    Big String Supporting Member

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    I've owned and gigged several of each brand and the above post really nails what I hear. +1.
    Currently I'm using a Sadowsky UVJ4 with single coils/AE210/F1 or RH450. I'm either getting a second AE210 or might try a AE112.
  20. KJung

    KJung Supporting Member

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    +1 on the 'baffle' models that he's describing. The more traditional BMF models are a very different thing, and sound wonderful to my ear if you match them up with a head that has the power and EQ to widen the voicing a touch. They are quite even though.

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