Buyers beware!!!!

Discussion in 'Amps [BG]' started by g4string, Sep 17, 2012.


  1. g4string

    g4string Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2002
    Location:
    McKinney, TX
    There is well known company out here doing some pretty crappy things. I am prob going to get screwed....so a fair warner is needed for others. I thought nothing of the "set-up" by the vender as they are a well known manufacturer of bass cabs here on TB. I assumed if I had an issue, the vendor would take care me of me.....well he kinda did, but refund my $$ he did not. Here is the set-up........the vendors website has no link to order of of his page. The only way to place an order is to call....unless of course you are OK sending your CC info via email. So basically, if want one of his cabs, your'e placing a phone call. Everything up until the point of receiving the item was handled well. Here is where I should have seen it coming. When I called to inquire about a certain 212 cab he sells, he said if I really wanted the cab, he has one ready to go in his shop and would offer me a discount if I wanted the cab. I email back and asked him what the discount was. The cab sells for about $885, he was willing to sell it to me for $700 shipped. I though, GREAT DEAL!! SWEET! So I said great, lets do it. He asked me if I could send the cash via a "friends/family" or "money owed" paypal method to help him avoid the fees. I thought OK, he is giving me a great discount, he does have a good reputation on TB, I though everything should fine.

    I get the cab and the cab is damaged. The bottom front RH corner is cracked and delaminated. You can see bare wood where the wood had splintered and delaminated. The same RH side rear corner plastic guard is cracked as well. It looked like the cab had suffered a fall on that bottom RH side. I plugged it in, the cab rattled and vibed all over the place. I am assuming the rattles and vibes were caused by the suspected fall...I am fairly certain the damage on the cab and rattles/vibes are correlated. So I email the vender and state the cab is damaged, am sending it back to him, and would like a refund. His response was he will not refund any $$ since I bought a discounted product. He stated he is shipping an upgraded replacement cab out right away, but refuses to refund any $$. I respond back with I do not a replacement, I only want a refund, I did not buy a discounted model, the discount was offered to me unsolicited. He states his website CLEARLY stated no returns/refunds on custom and discounted models. I searched and searched his website.....no FAQ's, no mention of refund/return policy......if you go to his "custom order's" page, there is a statement saying no refunds/returns on custom and discounted models. The vendor has inconspicuously hidden his return/refund policy on a custom order page. If you were not interested in a custom order and wanted to purchase an "off the shelf" box, you would never see this policy. So basically, the vendor offers you this wonderfull discount, asks you to pay via a non-fee method since your'e getting such a great deal, has some BS return policy you know nothing about since it is so hidden on his website, fails to disclose his return policy, and now you have no recourse to recoup any of your cash if things go sour. If you are ever asked to send non-fee cash to anybody for anything over the internet, DO NOT DO IT. Inquire about there return policy before you send $$. Dont get screwed like me. This happened by a well respected long time speaker maker. It can happen to any one. Here is the email exchange and pics......
     
  2. g4string

    g4string Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2002
    Location:
    McKinney, TX
    _____________________________________________________

    XXXX,

    Jason Goodman here....you and I spoke earlier today about the 212XX. I am interested in the XXX version. You offered me a discount over the phone, I am curious what that discount would be on that particular cab. Also, I am interested if you would sell me a cab with out the duratex/rhino-liner finish. I would like the option to tolex the cab (which I would do myself) or possibly do an oiled natural finish on the cab (which I would do myself as well). Either way, kinda curious what the cost would be with out the rhino finish. Lemme know. Thanks.

    JG


    _____________________________________________________

    Jason

    I could offer you a 212XX for $700.00 shipping included; the normal price is $885.00 shipped;

    and by next month the price will go up by ~ $75.00

    so, if you keep things confidential I can do that for you also without duratex coat @ your request;

    keep in mind that all cabinets are hand built at my own shop, I do not outsource and only use the

    best components available

    the lead time is ~ 2 weeks

    thanks

    XXXX

    PS: off to 3 gigs this weekend


    _____________________________________________________

    Jason
    If you need one sooner I have 1 available but that has already the duratex coat, which you could redo with tolex if you wish so but the rhino finish is very nice and easy to clean up with a moist towel
    Thx
    XXXX


    _____________________________________________________

    $700?

    JG


    _____________________________________________________

    Yes shipping included


    _____________________________________________________

    And it's 4 ohm


    _____________________________________________________

    I think I will take you up on the cab. I have a long weekend ahead of me at work. I'll call you on Monday. Have a good weekend.

    JG


    _____________________________________________________

    same here;

    I am getting ready for 3 gigs this weekend, should be fun of course;

    if you want call me Monday or you can either mail me a regular check made out to my name

    to my address below:

    XXXX
    XXXXX
    XXXXXX

    or paypal the funds by using my email address: XXXXX@XXX.com

    but if you paypal please mark "friends and family" and/or "amount owed"

    would like to avoid unnecessary fees if you know what I mean;

    also please email me your full info and I'll get things ready

    enjoy the weekend

    and thank you for your inquiry

    Sincerely,

    XXX


    _____________________________________________________

    Hey. I'll send you a money order. Screw PayPal. It'll save you $20-30 in fees if I send you a check. I'll get it out Monday.

    JG


    _____________________________________________________

    Money order or check are fine; don't forget to email me your shipping address and as soon as the funds arrive next week I'll ship your cabinet
    Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®


    _____________________________________________________

    Hey Jason;

    just wanted to see if you've mailed the check for the 212PL;

    nothing has arrived yet and I hope it didn't get lost

    let me know

    thanks

    XXXX


    _____________________________________________________

    XXXX,

    My apologies. I got sent out on an emergency down line (last minute) trip for work. I got back yesterday. Yes, we are still on for the cab. I have to make a trip to the bank tomorrow and deposit some cash…..so I will send you a "gift payment" via paypal either tomorrow or 1st thing WED morning. Again, my apologies for not not getting back to you sooner. FWIW, my address is;

    Jason Goodman
    XXXX
    XXXXX


    _____________________________________________________

    Jason

    thank you for the update and no apologies necessary, things can happen;

    my paypal email/account address is XXXX@XXX.com

    thanks again and I'll contact you as soon as the funds are here

    XXXX


    _____________________________________________________

    XXX,

    Sounds great. If I got the funds to you 1st thing wed morning, could it ship the same day? I would need the cab by the following Monday. Ups or FedEx ground is prob 3-4 days from ca to tx. Not trying to be a pita, but the sooner it ships the better for me.

    JG


    _____________________________________________________

    Jason

    I'll ship the cabinet out Fedex ground as soon as the funds are in, no problem whatsoever

    thanks

    _____________________________________________________

    Awesome. You're the man!!

    JG


    _____________________________________________________

    I'll pack it up tomorrow
    Thx


    _____________________________________________________

    good morning Jason;

    thanks for the paypal transfer, your cabinet is on the way to Fedex, tracking number

    XXXXXXXXXXXXXX and you should be able to track it in a few hours from now

    cabinet is definitely gig ready but will become even smoother once the speaker cones

    have soften up a bit;

    thank you for your support and please stay in touch

    Sincerely,

    XXX


    _____________________________________________________

    XXXX,

    Thanks for the quick reply. Looking fwd to getting the cab. Thanks!!!

    JG

    _____________________________________________________
     
  3. g4string

    g4string Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2002
    Location:
    McKinney, TX
    XXXX,

    Hey there, I got the cab. I picked it up from the FedEx facility this morning (or yesterday morning depending on when you read this). I worked all day/evening on Sunday, so I didn't have a chance to unbox her after I got off of work (about an hour ago). Bad news…..the cab arrived damaged. The bottom right corner of the cab is delaminated (see attached pics). Next, there is a horrible rattle/vibration emitting from the cab. It appears as though the rattle is coming from x-over/speaker-connector plate. However, given the damage on the bottom corner of the cab, there might be additional internal damage aside from the connector plate that is causing the cab to rattle/vibe. The rattle/vibe is most noticeable when plucking an open E even at low volume. The cab is 100% unplayable. I have to send this thing back. I gotta have a cab ASAP as this is my only cab at the moment (I just sold my last "spare" cab….Glockenklang 410). I am dead in the water due to the damage/rattle/vibe. At this point, I am asking for a refund. I will have to source a cab locally as I have gigs coming up in a few days. No hard feelings, nor am I upset/angry as I know "things" happen. Given your stellar track record on TalkBass, I am certain you will do the right thing and make this right. Please refund the $700 to XXXXX.com (I sent it to you as a "gift", please re-gift to me). I will get this re-packaged and mailed back to you tomorrow (or today depending when you read this). See attached pic for the damage.

    Jason Goodman


    [​IMG]

    _____________________________________________________

    Jason

    I am very sorry, Fedex is normally very, very reliable but they screwed that one up;

    I can assure you that I test every cabinet personally including of course yours and it worked 100%;

    I will call Fedex to file a claim this morning; they will pick it up tomorrow; I will email you the details;

    if you are not available leave a note and the cabinet available for pick up;

    I am shipping you a new cabinet out this morning; due to the fact that I gave you a discount this is the best I can do;

    do no ship it back; Fedex has to pick it up and inspect it;

    I'll contact you in a while with the details

    thanks


    _____________________________________________________

    okay, Jason

    I've just filed a claim with Fedex; they will show up tomorrow and pick up the damaged cabinet;

    please pack it up that everything will be ready; they will inspect the damage and I'll have it back in ~ 2 weeks

    a new cab is on the way to Fedex for you and I'll email you the tracking number shortly;

    again, I am very sorry about that; it is the 1st incident this year and normally Fedex is very reliable

    I'll contact you shortly with the tracking number

    please email me once Fedex has picked up the damaged unit

    thanks

    _____________________________________________________

    Jason;

    the replacement is on the way via Fedex ground tracking number XXXXXXXXXXX

    as a little compensation I've sent you the 1000 Watts RMS 4 ohm version, which has a street price of $1,100.00 + shipping;

    it is super efficient, doesn't need a lot of power to open up but handles anything you throw at it;

    again, please DO NOT ship the damaged unit back; Fedex will stop by tomorrow and pick it up;

    once more, I am sorry for the mishap, things unfortunately happen;

    please keep me posted

    thanks

    _____________________________________________________

    XXXX,

    I have a gig in two days. There is not enough time for me to wait for the new cab to arrive. I have to have a gig-ready cab today or tomorrow. The $700 you have is $$ I need to buy a replacement cab. I appreciate the offer for a replacement, but at this time it is not going to work for me. And regardless, a discount should have no bearing as to whether you will accept a return or not. If you go to Home Depot, Macy's, Guitar Center, etc and buy something….get it home and realized it was damaged out of the box, you have the right to return…..regardless of whether you bought the item in sale/discount/clearance/full price/etc. I am not asking for a return simply because I do not like the cab. I am asking for a refund because the cab you sent is damaged…and I need a cab NOW. Again, I appreciate your offer to ship me a 1000W version to make up for the inconvenience. However, that is not going to help me. At this point, given my current situation, I will accept nothing short of a full refund. To make it right on my end, I would be willing to cover the cost of shipping the cab one way…….that's about it. I'm pretty firm on this.

    Jason

    _____________________________________________________

    as you can see the cabinet is already on the Fedex truck;

    you can get a loaner cab @ any music store for a few bucks

    thanks, that's the best I can do

    take care and you'll enjoy the cabinet; you won't get anything decent for $700.00 in any store,


    _____________________________________________________

    FedEx came and picked up the damaged cab yesterday. To be honest, this whole situation is starting to leave a very sour taste in my mouth. I can see no reason why a refund should not have been granted when I initially asked for one, regardless whether a discount was given or not. I never asked for replacement, I asked for a refund. I think I see why why you asked for a paypal "gift" or "personal" payment at the very beginning. Even despite sending the cash to you as a "gift"/"personal" payment, I still can file a claim-dispute with paypal. I plan on doing so. Additionally, I plan on filing a claim with Wells Fargo. $650 of the $700 was funded from my WF bank account…..only $50 came from paypal. I contacted Wells Fargo, forwarded them a copy of our emails, and they stated I have legitimate grounds for a claim. I called FedEx and am having the package you sent me routed back to you. As I stated earlier in my previous email, I was/am pretty firm on getting my money back. I feel the "best you could have done" was to send me a refund. Thanks for your understanding.

    _____________________________________________________

    our site clearly states that there is no refund on custom and discounted cabinets;

    I've went the extra mile to ship you a replacement out asap to help you out in your dilemma,

    which was definitely the fault of Fedex and no other party;

    under normal circumstances we file a claim first, wait until we receive the damaged unit and determine

    the cause of the damage; after the determination we ship out a replacement;

    your new cabinet is scheduled for tomorrow's delivery;

    _____________________________________________________

    XXXX,

    I didn't order a discounted model. YOU offered me a discount, further more you never once mentioned that a discount would result in a non-returnable status. Nice way to trick, deceive, and defraud your customers. Even more reason for me to file a claim. It is not like I ordered a previously discounted model off of your website. I ordered this via a phone conversation and email exchange. You offered me a discount over the phone. You never mentioned anything about restrictions on discounts. I never once looked at your website. After offering me a discount, it would be your obligation to inform me that by accepting your "discount" I am forgoing any rights for a refund. I am refusing the shipment on the replacement. After this ordeal, I think I get your biz model…….offer a "discount" to your customers, ask them to return of the favor of the discount you offered them by sending cash via pers check, paypal gift etc, then that way they cant return it because to was "discounted" nor can they file a claim because it was a "gift" payment. Pretty shady is you ask me. And no, I don't think FedEx was to blame for the damage, I think you were. There was ZERO padding in the box you sent me. The only padding you had was two pieces of folded cardboard on the top and bottom of the cab. See the attached pic for a reminder the packing contents of the box you sent. These were all of the contents of the shipping container. Again, I have already refused shipment of the replacement and initiating a claim with Wells Fargo. Dont worry……I will be more than happy to post on several bass guitar forums about your "discount" and "gift" payment trick, in addition to how wonderful your packing skills are. I feel like you are trying to "work me over" and take advantage of a situation you tricked me into. Things of this nature do not sit well with me. I think you tried to fool the wrong person this time.

    Regards


    [​IMG]
    _____________________________________________________

    Jason

    stop playing word games; I was an attorney for 15 years; when a discount is offered and accepted by the purchasing party it is a "discounted cabinet", and you did not pay the full price;

    we ship out 50-60 cabinets per month and as stated in my email from Monday and this is the very first claim in more than a year;

    I consider hereby this correspondence/transaction as completed and finished

    thank you

    _____________________________________________________

    XXXX,

    Not playing any word games. As a former attorney, you should know better. The discount/gift trick you suckered me into (and I am sure there are plenty others) is at most highly unethical, if not illegal. This will be my last correspondence with you. From here on out, I will be dealing with Wells Fargo in regards to my claim. FWIW, I do plan on reporting your biz tactic to ic3.gov. I will warn others as often as I can.

    Regards,

    JG

    _____________________________________________________

    go ahead, Jason

    then don't be surprised when you will receive a civil action for slander;

    and good luck; in my 15 years of experience in this business you are the first and most disrespectful people I've come across


    _____________________________________________________

    Jason;

    the alleged malfunctioning cabinet arrived this morning; my engineer and myself have been spending more than an hour to find out your alleged claim

    that the cabinet does not work; we've been using numerous amplifiers, basses, cables and the cabinet works 100% despite the little nick on the bottom;

    despite your false allegations I would have offered you a resolution, but unless you cancel your paypal claim to which I've already responded I have no other

    choice but to await now and search for the outstanding 212 cabinet that you've refused to accept;

    if that cabinet does not show up in a timely manner I have no choice but to take the appropriate legal steps

    thank you

    _____________________________________________________

    XXXX,

    The damage on the bottom of the cab is/was not a nick….the wood was cracked/delaminated. The plastic corner opposite of the damage was cracked as well…….coupled with the delamination on front, that leads me to believe the cab suffered a fall somewhere down the line before it got to me. Your 1000W replacement cab will be back to you shortly, XXXXXXXXXXX FEDEX tracking #. Look, you have the original cab back, the replacement you sent me is on it's way back to you, let's be done with this deal. You can keep the $$ it cost to ship me the original cab, refund me the difference and lets both of us move on. Regarding your claim you do not accept refunds on discount orders……..seriously….how would I have ever found out that information? There is no FAQ's on your webpage, there is no way to order a cab from your page, the only way to do any kind of business on your site is to make a call or send an email. I would have never been able to find any information on your return policy unless you would have specifically told me it was under the "custom order" link. I mean seriously, what other web page do you know of that has their return policy under a custom order link? Your return policy needs to conspicuously displayed, out in the open….not hidden behind your custom orders tab. I was never interested in a custom build so I never had any business clicking on the custom orders part of your website. That is the one and only place you have your refund policy stated. The location is so inconspicuous, that if your customers were never interested in a custom build, they never would know your refund policy. Since the only way to order is by phone, you should tell people what your return policy is before they order. NTM, I never asked for a discount. You offered it to me….you were the one who asked me to pay a "friends/family" "amount owed" payment. The CA state law requires web merchants to disclose your refund policy before accepting any payment. The refund policy has to displayed in a conspicuous manner. Yours is not. Look……keep the $ for the shipping the original cab to me, you break even. Im the only one out any money. Please do the right thing, refund my $$, and lets move on. No damage has been done to anybody accept both our pride. I appreciate everything you have done….but I am soo bitter with this deal that even if I end up with your cab back there is no way I could ever enjoy it. All it will do is serve to remind me of this horrible experience. As I told you earlier in a previous email, keep the shipping cost but I will accept nothing short of a refund.

    Jason

    _____________________________________________________

    Jason

    you've claimed that the cabinet was unplayable and that is definitely not the truth; you could have gigged with the cabinet the very next day without any problems or issues whatsoever

    and the very next day the replacement would have arrived; we've played for hours through it since it's return and there is absolutely nothing sound wise wrong with it except the damage on the bottom;

    I will have to wait until the replacement has been returned and see what the next step with paypal is;

    if you would have just stated that you did not want the cabinet I would have worked something out; but pretending that it does not work properly was absolutely not the truth;

    thank you

    _____________________________________________________

    XXXX,

    In my house, with my own two ears, the cab rattled and buzzed. The can rattled and buzzed it was unplayable. The cab was damaged. These are all things that are not made up. Why would I make that up? If I didn't like like the cab I would have said so. There was no way you could have gigged the cabinet. I just tried to call, I think it's about time we discussed this man to man instead of email. I can cancel my claim once you send a refund. Are you saying you would have refunded my purchase if I merely said I didn't like the cab? How could I have done that when the cab was damaged? I cant call you and say I dont like the cab and send you back a damaged product. That isnt right. And i never had a chance to gig it to see if I even liked the cab. Seriously. Stand behind your product. The cab was damaged. The cab was ungiggable. Don't know why you hung up on me when i called and are refusing to accept my call. This whole thing stinks. Again, let's be done with this. Keep your shipping cost, an refund me the difference. Simple, done.

    JG

    _____________________________________________________
     
  4. 5port

    5port

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Location:
    LI,new yawk
    "He stated he is shipping an upgraded replacement cab out right away"

    This is where I am confused about you being upset.
     
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  6. curbowkid

    curbowkid Guest

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2011
    Location:
    Brooklyn, New York
    Yea.... You may have a gig coming but why not play through the PA? You're getting a 1100 dollar cab for 700. Don't burn bridges dude.
     
  7. g4string

    g4string Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2002
    Location:
    McKinney, TX
    Never asked for a replacement. I asked for a refund........but aside from that, its the discount/no-fee payment method he uses that has upset me. It is a trick, plain and simple. You have zero-little recourse when you use this. The vendor has your $$, if you dont like the cab and want to send it back, you cant!! No refunds/returns on discounted products. His practice of offering you a discount and wanting a no-fee payment is extremely deceptive and offers little recourse for customers of the would like to return the product. This is the point....
     
  8. pedroims

    pedroims

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2007
    Location:
    Michigan
    You got a damaged cab, vendor paid for shipping the cab back and sent a new one to you, seems like he even sent an upgraded version. IMHO that is a fair deal to me, I dont expect every company to have a full refund policy.
     
  9. g4string

    g4string Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2002
    Location:
    McKinney, TX
    The point isnt about the replacement, the point is for you (and others) to not send non-fee payments.
     
  10. curbowkid

    curbowkid Guest

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2011
    Location:
    Brooklyn, New York
    But why? Everything worked out fine. Especially for you with an upgraded cab for a fraction of the price. I don't see where there was an issue apart from the initial cab being damaged.
     
  11. g4string

    g4string Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2002
    Location:
    McKinney, TX
    I undertand that......but when you cant order his products from his website, and have to call him on the phone to place an order, I feel the return policy should be disclosed. The fact he hides his refund/return policy on a custom order page seems fishy to me.....esp when discounts are thrown out unsolicited. Seems like a tactic to lock people in to purchase with no way out of it.
     
  12. kellyrojo

    kellyrojo

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2011
    Location:
    South Carolina
    this is too long to read but who is this dealer or are you keeping it under wraps? sounds like a mess!
     
  13. g4string

    g4string Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2002
    Location:
    McKinney, TX
    Send all of the non-fee payments you want then. I think you're missing the point of thread.
     
  14. g4string

    g4string Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2002
    Location:
    McKinney, TX
    Not gonna say.....PM me if you need more info
     
  15. pedroims

    pedroims

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2007
    Location:
    Michigan
    I agreed with you, I look for the return policy in the website and could not find it. Is this disclosed in the invoice or packing list?
     
  16. g4string

    g4string Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2002
    Location:
    McKinney, TX
    Packing list??? What's that? There was no packing list. The cab was wrapped in a garbage and thrown into the box seen above. No papers, invoices, etc.
     
  17. Chachie

    Chachie Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2012
    Vendor is great, and went the extra mile by handling everything promptly.
    Just another case of entitlement.

    **** happens.
     
  18. g4string

    g4string Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2002
    Location:
    McKinney, TX
    :rollno:
     
  19. Rumblefisher

    Rumblefisher Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2007
    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    Your point is well taken g4sting. I agree it's often a tricky subject regarding these dang paypal fees.

    Personally, I ALWAYS appreciate when anyone agrees to go that route, as it really does save me needlessly wasted cash. I in turn do the same for pretty much anyone on TB with a track record (a couple of (+) transactions).

    Outside of our little bass world though, I wouldn't dream of foregoing an "insurance" policy!
     
  20. g4string

    g4string Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2002
    Location:
    McKinney, TX
    That't the only reason I agreed to do the non-fee thing is cause this guy is in the "bass world". This whole thing is a mess. I know my days of non-fee payments days are over. I will not do biz w/o that protection. Its just too risky. Now I'm possibly out $700. Just dont want to see others get burned.
     
  21. curbowkid

    curbowkid Guest

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2011
    Location:
    Brooklyn, New York
    Do you not have a 1,100 dollar replacement cab?

    Maybe I am missing the point of this. But I think you are slightly over reacting as well
     

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