Cab comparo: H810 v NV610 v Ag stack

Discussion in 'Amps [BG]' started by StuartV, Feb 4, 2014.


  1. StuartV

    StuartV Out of GAS!! Supporting Member

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    I have these 3 amps:

    early 70s (black line) SVT
    SVT 2 Pro
    '73 Traynor YBA-3 Custom Special

    I have these cabs:

    Ampeg Heritage 810
    Bergantino NV610
    Aguilar GS210 and Aguilar GS115 (both 8 ohm, stacked)

    I recorded all 3 amps with the 810 and 610, and the 2 Pro with the Aguilar stack.

    The amps were all set with all controls "nooned". The 2 Pro had the Master volume all the way up and the Drive knob all the way off. I used Channel 1 Normal input on the SVT and YBA.

    Since the amps were all set before the first recording, and then all knobs were untouched for the rest of the time, there are volume differences between the clips. These volume differences demonstrate, for example, how much louder the 810 is compared to the 610, when the amp volume is set the same.

    The clips:

    2 Pro + Aguilar https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/41551864/1-2Pro+AguilarGS210+GS115.WAV

    2 Pro + 810 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/41551864/3-2Pro+H810-2.WAV

    2 Pro + 610 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/41551864/4-2Pro+NV610.WAV

    SVT + 810 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/41551864/6-SVT+H810-2.WAV

    SVT + 610 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/41551864/7-SVT+NV610.WAV

    YBA + 810 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/41551864/9-YBA3+H810-2.WAV

    YBA + 610 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/41551864/10-YBA3+NV610.WAV

    I've seen numerous posts in the past with people wanting a comparison of the Ampeg 810 and the Bergantino 610. Hopefully, this helps.
     
  2. StuartV

    StuartV Out of GAS!! Supporting Member

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    As an aside that I found interesting, if you listen to the clips of the 810, you'll notice that at the beginning of each, I say that it's "take 2". That is because my music room looks like this:

    [​IMG]

    For these recordings, I simply pulled all 3 stacks out from the wall far enough so that I could easily get behind them to move the speaker cable between each amp/cab pair. When I did the first take of all the 810 clips, I noticed that the 810 sounded really boomy any time I played an open E string or even a low G. I got to thinking about that and decided that that COULD be because of the 810 being sort of in a corner. So, I moved the 810 stack from the right end of the lineup to the left end and re-recorded all 3 amps through it. Thus, take 2. And, sure enough, the bottom end boom went away! Of course, the bottom still sounds great! But, before, the low E - G were just disproportionately loud compared to the rest of the notes.
     
  3. GregC

    GregC Johnny and Joe Gold Supporting Member

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    Thanks for posting this. Posting now so I'll remember to listen when I get home from work.
     
  4. jwindham

    jwindham

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    Definitely sounds to me like the Berg NV610 has more clarity thru the midrange. Both sound very nice, but the NV610 seems it would be a tad easier to hear in a busy mix. But, I know bass cabs have a certain "feel", and would be interesting to hear them both in person!
     
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  6. StuartV

    StuartV Out of GAS!! Supporting Member

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    I like 'em both, but I agree with what you kind of alluded to, which is, to really decide which I like best, I need to play them both in a band mix - which I have not done yet. I just got the 810 fairly recently and it hasn't been out of the house yet.

    Playing them at home, I go back and forth on which one I like better.

    Maybe I should try recording them again, but with the volume up more and with the volume adjusted so they are both approximately the same volume. Hmmm....
     
  7. kringle77

    kringle77 Supporting Member

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    Ive had a few ampeg 810 cabs. At home i like ampegs, at a gig i like the berg.
     
  8. Vanni

    Vanni

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    very interesting...

    the difference between the NV610 and the SVT810 are very clear, even in a sample!

    I would have liked to try the SVT810 (Heritage), but I think I'll stick with the NV610
     
  9. AdamR

    AdamR Supporting Member

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    The SVT II and the Black line sound very similar. The Berg is defiantly clearer then the Peg 810.
     
  10. GregC

    GregC Johnny and Joe Gold Supporting Member

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    Finally had a chance to listen to this, very cool and interesting. I have the NV610 and I liked it best in the clips.
     
  11. andrew

    andrew

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    Ive had a few ampeg 810 cabs. At home i like the berg, at a gig i like the berg.
     
  12. JimmyM

    JimmyM Supporting Member

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    To me the Berg sounds like a more "modernized" (for lack of a better word) version of the Ampeg 810. Then again, turning the treble down and bass up a little in the Berg would have made it sound more like the Ampeg and vice versa.
     
  13. kringle77

    kringle77 Supporting Member

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    You would have really cut the midsbat around 500hz to. The heritage drivers can be boughtbfor $115 each plus shipping. Regular drivers are$85 i think. Id take either over the B810 driver.
     
  14. Laurent

    Laurent Supporting Member

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    Stu, thanks for the great post. Congrats on the impressive amp line-up.

    You mentioned that the 810 is louder than the 610. I understand the 810 has more speakers generating volume but I would have assumed the 610 was louder due to its higher sensitivity (103db for the Berg vs 100 db for the Ampeg). My experience with speaker's sensitivity is that a few db of difference make a big sonic difference and generate a lot more volume.

    Would you please detail your impressions and ideas on this topic. Many thanks.
     
  15. StuartV

    StuartV Out of GAS!! Supporting Member

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    Hi Laurent,

    I would also have expected the 610 to be louder, because of the sensitivity rating. But, if you listen to the recordings, you can hear that the 810 sounds louder. When you compare the 2 cabs being run off the same amp (whichever amp you want to focus on), the 810 sounds louder. And all those clips were recorded without changing any amp or bass settings in between. In other words, the SVT Volume was set at "1" or thereabouts. At that setting, the 810 had a certain level of volume coming out. And with the SVT plugged into the 610 and the SVT Volume knob still set in the same position, the 610 was not as loud. The digital recorder I was using was set to NOT do "automatic gain" and the microphone gain setting was also unchanged between clips. The recorder was positioned the same, too - well out in front of both cabs, which were side by side.

    I don't understand how speaker cabs get their sensitivity rating. I thought I did, but now, clearly I don't. And I guess it should have been obvious to me sooner that I don't really understand.

    You can compare cabs that have the same drivers in them, but 1 cab is 2 10s or 4 10s and the other cab is 4 or 6 or 8 10s. What we "know" on here is that if you compare, for example, a 210 to a 410, both with the same drivers and basic cab architecture, then the 210 might be 8 ohms and the 410 4 ohms. If I run, say, an Ampeg V4B into each of those, then, in the 210 scenario, each individual driver will get 50W of power. With their sensitivity rating, that will result in an SPL of X. If I then run the same amp into the 410, each driver will get 25W of power. Half the power yields half the dBs of SPL, right (on a per-driver basis)? So, this SEEMS like it would mean that the V4B would have the same overall volume whether you were using the 210 or the 410. But that certainly defies common sense and experience.

    And that's only the scenario for using a tube amp with appropriate taps for the impedances in question.

    In contrast, I have a Class D head that is rated at 250W at 8ohms and 500W at 4 ohms. So, if I used that with the previously imagined cabinets, the 210 scenario would result in 125W per driver and the 410 scenario would also get 125W per driver. This would lead me to expect the 410 to be a LOT louder than the 210 - which I think it would. But would it be twice as loud?

    And why would a SS amp get a big volume increase from doubling the drivers and the tube amp get (in theory) no increase?

    In real life, would the volume increase be the same no matter whether the amp was SS or tube?

    And what if the SS amp were 100W at 8 and 200W at 4. Would the SS amp and the V4B actually put out the same volume (from a 210) when both are turned up to the onset of distortion? I would think so.

    And if you then changed to the 4ohm 410, would the SS amp now be louder than the V4B (when both are turned up to the onset of distortion) since the SS is 200W and the V4B is 100W?
     
  16. Fuzzbass

    Fuzzbass Gnarsty bass tones Supporting Member

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    Nicely done, StuartV! Jeez... killer gear collection. :eek::)


    Some differences exist, but the Berg has the Ampeg vibe in spades, which is why it's my favorite cab bar none. The extra height of the Ampeg 8x10 can be great, especially when you have to stand close to your rig, but the NV610 turned sideways fits perfectly in the cargo area of my Subaru Forester, I don't even have to fold the rear seat back.
     
  17. kringle77

    kringle77 Supporting Member

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    During the summer i brought an ampeg 810 and the nv610 outdoors to see which could handle more power and put out more volume. The nv610 won that contest. In fact i dont think that i got the nv to break up at all but i got the amoeg to fart. I really like them both but, the nv can cut through better at a lower volume because it has more mids and tighter lows. That said, i wouldnt mind having a heritage 810 for my 70's svt. But, thats a pretty big practixe amp for my basement.
     
  18. StuartV

    StuartV Out of GAS!! Supporting Member

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    Thanks, Fuzz! I wish I had been able to get my B-15R in the picture, too, but I keep it in my office for after hours practicing. :)

    Interesting. I reckon there's nothing that says one cab couldn't put out more volume at lower power settings but still fart out sooner and so the "less sensitive" cab ends up being able to produce a higher SPL.

    I wonder how the Heritage 810 would have fared in that same comparison. Maybe some day I'll have an opportunity to do the same kind of "max volume" comparison with my two. Hmmmm. Maybe get my g/f to go a couple of blocks over in our neighborhood, turn them up to "onset of farting" (Not-Silent, But Deadly - or at least vomit-inducing, if you're JimmyM ;)) one at a time and get her to tell me which one she can hear better?
     
  19. kringle77

    kringle77 Supporting Member

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  20. kringle77

    kringle77 Supporting Member

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    I would never have done that test inside my little house. Things would literally get broken.
     
  21. AstroSonic

    AstroSonic Supporting Member

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    All 3 cabs had a distinct sound, as did the amps. The distinctly modern tone of the NV610 was consistent across all 3 amps. I at first enjoyed the clarity and articulation of the 610 compared to the 810, but after short while I found myself really enjoying the tone of the 810 - meaty bass with nice growl and punch. My favorite: the Aguilar stack - a nice blend of modern clarity and with a meaty bass. Thanks for a great comparo!
     

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