1. Welcome to TalkBass, the Premier Bass Player Community and Information Source. We've been uniting the Low End Since 1998!

    We're glad you've found us. Register a 100% Free Account to post and unlock tons of features.

Cab to add to an SWR Goliath II 410?

Discussion in 'Amps [BG]' started by Brother Goose, Feb 12, 2014.


  1. Brother Goose

    Brother Goose Fun with a k all day! Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2013
    Location:
    Syracuse NY
    Disclosures:
    (visitor from Planet Funktron)
    Team,

    I picked up a mint condition SWR Goliath II 410 that has lived in the clean/dry warehouse of my company for many years. (we are an IT solution provider- so there is NO moisture or silverfish in this thing).

    Love the sound- had one of these before- and I'm thinking about adding another 500 watt 8ohm cab to play along with her.

    Long term goal is to build a fEARFUL 1515/66 stand-alone.

    I'm thinking about adding an Avatar 112 which would also be my cab for small rooms. Anyone else have success with this?

    I'll also open the floor to the continued debate regarding mixed driver sizes.

    Running an SWR Grand Prix into a Crown Microtech 300 for the time being- but will be upgrading to a higher wattage Carvin power amp ASAP.

    The floor is open- all feedback is welcome! :bassist:
     
  2. Brother Goose

    Brother Goose Fun with a k all day! Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2013
    Location:
    Syracuse NY
    Disclosures:
    (visitor from Planet Funktron)
    ImageUploadedByTalkBass1392232366.402806.jpg

    ed note: it is a Micro-Tech 600, I'd prefer to bridge but can adjust levels per cab for the time being
     
  3. Jim Carr

    Jim Carr Dr. Jim Gold Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2006
    Location:
    Denton, TX or Kailua, HI
    Disclosures:
    AFM 72-147 union card-carrying liberal academic musician
    Congrats on a cool old cab that sounds great. I used one alone, with a 210, and with a 115. The 115 didn't work that well. The 210, was pretty good, as it was an Epifani NYC T-210. The Epifani could handle about the same amount of power, and worked well with the EQ needs of the goliath ll.

    Of course, if you have a two channel power amp, you can balance two cabs with the A/B channel attenuators. Is your horn working?
     
  4. Brother Goose

    Brother Goose Fun with a k all day! Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2013
    Location:
    Syracuse NY
    Disclosures:
    (visitor from Planet Funktron)
    Horn works great- but I leave it way down (I understand that turning horns off can fry them- pretty sure I ran into problems with an Avatar 212 doing that).

    I'm open to another 210- but hope another speaker can dial back in some of the missing low mids from the "SWR sound". This cab has great low end.

    How much do you love you 15/6/1 setup? That modular approach sounds really smart.

    It's too bad I am a brutish farm boy who loves the idea of a monolithic 2000 watt 'cab of doom'. I suppose I'll wind up being compelled by whatever I see on talkbass when I have the money saved- although I have a buddy with building chops and several sheets of aircraft grade plywood.

    I'm tempted to build a small fearful to start- but am afraid it will lay waste to this 410!
     
  5. Register to disable this ad
  6. Mr. Foxen

    Mr. Foxen

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2009
    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    Disclosures:
    Amp tinkerer at Ampstack
    If you like the sound of the SWR Goliath II 410, but want louder, get a second SWR Goliath II 410. Adding a 1x12 to it in the same rig will do nothing good for you, just tap away power and give you something that will break easy.
     
  7. chadds

    chadds

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2000
    Yep just play it like that and later get another. I agree. Tweeter barely on makes a balanced sound.
     
  8. chadds

    chadds

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2000
    Enjoy, the GIIs are nice. They can do hifi or Motown. They are uncolored enough to deliver what ever you put through them.
     
  9. Brother Goose

    Brother Goose Fun with a k all day! Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2013
    Location:
    Syracuse NY
    Disclosures:
    (visitor from Planet Funktron)
    This is great feedback- I'll keep an eye out for a matching Goliath II 210. I'm obviously a big fan of Avatar so may go with them for an 8ohm cab- unless anyone sees a potential problem *only issue I see would be not so perfect stacking- but this is a not so perfect world*

    There are plenty of 12/15 speakers in my future... I'll let them play with their own kind.
     
  10. CL400Peavey

    CL400Peavey Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2011
    Location:
    Grand Rapids Michigan
    Mixing cabs is a crap shoot. You wont know if you will have problems until you try the different combinations.

    For best results match your cabs.
     
  11. Jim Carr

    Jim Carr Dr. Jim Gold Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2006
    Location:
    Denton, TX or Kailua, HI
    Disclosures:
    AFM 72-147 union card-carrying liberal academic musician
    I think with two channels for balancing, you have a huge range of choices...basically anything that fits in with your wallet and vehicle that you like the sound of...I do think that trying to fill in weaker parts of the bass spectrum should be handled by EQ, not hardware¬óI have never found that works well without dedicated drivers and crossovers.

    IMHO, to have cabs that play well together without crossovers usually means they have similar voicing, so that EQ and level changes get related results.

    (fEARful 15/6/1 + 15sub) * M9 carbine = personal PA for bass, i.e., nuclear bulldozer :D
     
  12. Jim Carr

    Jim Carr Dr. Jim Gold Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2006
    Location:
    Denton, TX or Kailua, HI
    Disclosures:
    AFM 72-147 union card-carrying liberal academic musician
    +1

    Totally true. You need another goliath ll. :ninja:
     
  13. Jim Carr

    Jim Carr Dr. Jim Gold Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2006
    Location:
    Denton, TX or Kailua, HI
    Disclosures:
    AFM 72-147 union card-carrying liberal academic musician

    That is called a goliath II, Jr. I had a goliath III, Jr., and found it to be weak in the low end. :eek:
    BTW, I have a grey grill for a goliath III, Jr. from before they went to chrome grills. I think it matches the Goliath II. :cool:
     
  14. HaphAsSard

    HaphAsSard

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2013
    Location:
    Italia
    Goose:
    The Goliath Jr. II is supposed to have the same (8 ohm) drivers as your cabinet, wired parallel to 4 ohms (the 4x10 is 8 ohm, series-parallel).
    It's shallower than its big bro, but taller (assuming you lay it horizontal) than half the 410, so the internal airspace per driver might be the same in both cabs.
    (Sources: large one here, small one here.)
    (Almost-)same bass response, same tone, then? a potentially TB-kosher 610 asymmetrical stack? I don't know, but unless you're dead set on mixing your Goliath with a different cab, and willing to experiment, the Jr. II is the smaller cab to look at IMO.
    If you go for it, as has been said, you could put one on each channel (with the one feeding the 2x10 run way lower than the other since it's 4 ohmed besides being 2 drivered); or bridge it up and connect the two cabs with a series cable for a total impedence of 12 ohms: this way each driver should get the same power.
    (In case the above appears to make sense, please, please don't take my word for it, I tend to make/mix things up: if in need, check my thoughts with someone tech-savy.)

    I have a beat-up, third-hand (at least) Jr. II: tweeter was fried at one point, removed along with the horn, hole plugged, one or both cones ripped and patched - oh, and grill painted silver, making hard to check the cones in rehearsal space penumbra. Let's say it only does Motown now... So no, no real experience with an undisturbed, fully functional one, but if you like the 410 I reckon adding the 210 should give you (a little) more of the same, and work as a deputy for smaller gigs.
     
  15. Roscoe East

    Roscoe East

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2011
    I've heard that party line too, that turning the tweeter attenuator all the way down can cause problems (though I believe it fries the attenuator, not the tweeter...I never really bothered to understand the science and/or bullcrap aspects of this oft-repeated anecdote)

    But the solution is to simply remove the "fuse" (aka, the lightbulb) inside the Goliath's crossover. This essentially disables the tweeter completely. Maximum attenuation FTW!
     
  16. chadds

    chadds

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2000
    The GII with GIIjr is not a great idea. The ohms don't match. Balancing the two sides of your amp is a fix. Yet the cabs respond so differently that the response to your pluck will be different. I've owned 4 Jrs at one time then two GIIIs and one GIII Jr.
    There is little similarity between the cabs. Don't mix. GIIs sound better than the GIIIs. The GII Jr sounds way better than the GIII Jr.

    One GII can sound so good. Crank it with good clean power don't over boost the bass eq and you will be surprised how much sound it puts out. Raise it up so you can hear it. Lastly just get another GII when one comes around.
     
  17. Brother Goose

    Brother Goose Fun with a k all day! Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2013
    Location:
    Syracuse NY
    Disclosures:
    (visitor from Planet Funktron)
    Thanks to everyone- I'm def gonna steer clear of the GII jr based up Chadds's feedback: fact is they are pretty hard to find and def not close to the price/quality of my minty 410.

    I have 600 watt JBL 15 (thiele cab) for smaller rooms or a low-fi sound. So I think I'm covered for the foreseeable future.

    Next investment is def a nice power amp. Had a Mackie 1400i but it was a real POS- in fact I still have it and the intermittent problems that come along... but that is another thread...

    Happy Thumpin'! Don't forget to get a card/flowers for your loved ones! (yeah yeah- Hallmark Holiday-- your still gonna get in trouble if you don't)
     
  18. dvlmusic

    dvlmusic Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2010
    Location:
    Alameda, CA
    Just to be Devil's advocate: I have a Goliath II and a Goliath II Junior and they both sound excellent with my SWR SM-400. The 210 is HUGE sounding - in fact I rarely bust out the 410 at all these days. I would agree that if you can find a Junior II to match you'd be gold.

    I put this rig together via 2 years of CL trades. A little but of patience goes a long way. Both cabs were an 8 out of 10 quality-wise (no shredded carpet or anything) so they are out there and can be found.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  19. HaphAsSard

    HaphAsSard

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2013
    Location:
    Italia
    Hence my series idea.
    Which, it occurred to me, can be improved upon: one could add a series-parallel switch in the Junior II, so that, when switched to 16 ohms, the cab could be used in dual mono with the 410, with identical volume settings, and appropriately draw half the power; and also be daisy-chained (with a normal cable) to the 410 in bridge mode for a total load of 5.33 ohms (much better than 12!). The usual caveat applies: don't blindly trust the above reasoning!
    Does the different response argument apply to series-II cabs? Did you ever have a GII and a GII jr. at the same time? I ask because the series-III cabs both came in 8 and 4 ohms, which means they had at least two driver models, an 8 and a 16 ohm I guess, with not necessarily the same specs; of course every 410 must have sounded fuller than the corresponding 210 because of mutual coupling, different woofer-to-tweeter proportion, baffle step, power handling (->ability to be pushed harder) etc.

    to dvl: there you go!
    to Goose: good luck anyway! :)
     
  20. Brother Goose

    Brother Goose Fun with a k all day! Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2013
    Location:
    Syracuse NY
    Disclosures:
    (visitor from Planet Funktron)
    Love it! Of course- i'm really hoping this can will live in my home studio/rehearsal space when i build a fEARFUL 1212 or 1515 rig in a year or so... there is a certain coloration to the SWR sound (which i really enjoy, of course)
     
  21. HaphAsSard

    HaphAsSard

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2013
    Location:
    Italia
    I guess I might as well be exhaustive and mention there's another set of options in stacking a Goliath II and its smaller ego: rewiring not the latter but the former, for switchable, all-parallel, 2 ohm operation.
    In case you get bit by the SVT bug in the future, both cabs would have a friendly ohmage (when using either, not both: tube amps don't like oddball impedances very much). More importantly to our case, hooking the 410 and the 210 to your power amp, there would be a couple ways with this 2 ohm switch on:
    1- each cab to its channel, same volume settings (maybe roll it back a smidge on the 210 side), each driver in the stack would get the same watts;
    x- bridge mode and daisy-chained cabs CANNOT be done, combined impedance being too low (1.33 ohms); in this case using a series cable is not advisable, since with series connections it's the higher impedance load (the Jr. in this instance) that gets the most power, or so I have read (and taken it to account in the 12 ohm option I described some posts ago) [EDIT: and even if the power distribution checked OK the combined impedance wouldn't (3 ohms, too low for series mode with this amp, and probably most amps)];
    2- however, what CAN be done with your specific amp is wiring it in parallel mono mode: the Micro-Tech 600 is rated up(/down?) to 1 ohm in this configuration, so it should handle the aforementioned 1.33 Ω total load just fine.

    Of course, should you go down this route, be careful with the volume knob, you'd have close to 700 W on tap. Also, you want to ensure the amp is properly cooled at all times.


    And that's it, to the best of my knowledge and IM-lack-of-E. Even if Brother Goose has written off the Goliath Jr. II for his prospective purchase, someone else might feel like trying this 610 stack, one specific "mixed" combination that arguably looks good on paper since it would involve the same exact driver in both cabs, with possibly the same airspace per driver.
     

Share This Page