do i need more cab

Discussion in 'Amps [BG]' started by Rhon, Feb 21, 2013.


  1. Rhon

    Rhon

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2012
    so in my band we have a drummer, a guitarist with a 4x12 and a 50 watt head.
    i have the ampeg pf500 with the acoustic b410
    this means i have a 4x10 with 300 watts.

    we play punk and ska and for the ska parts i dont think i cut through very well which is important and i feel like i need more bass on those parts, if i had a better 4x10 would i be fine or do i need more speakers? :help:
  2. Monster Truck

    Monster Truck Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2011
    Location:
    Erie, PA
    Perhaps you just need to fiddle with the EQ a bit.
  3. Duckwater

    Duckwater

    Joined:
    May 10, 2010
    Location:
    USA, Washington
    Tell your guitar player to turn down, you have plenty of volume. I play with 3 guitar players, a drummer, and a singer/keys player and I never have trouble hearing myself with my 100 watt combo.
  4. Rhon

    Rhon

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2012
    hes not too loud he mixes fine with the drums ive done everything possible with eq, ive bumped mids in all 5 positions with less than spectacular results the ampeg head has amazing tone but it gets lost and i think its maybe cause the acoustic b410 is a budget cab. also the guitarist even took out some of his bass on his eq to give me more "room" but that just helped marginally.
  5. JimmyM

    JimmyM Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2005
    Location:
    Apopka, FL
    Disclosures:
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    While there is no replacement for displacement, I would think you have enough to hang. I could debate the merits of the Acoustic cab vs others, but you should be able to get a decent ska sound out of it at a pretty good clip. Keep experimenting for now...try rolling off the tone knob on your bass, too. I do that sometimes when playing reggae and it always works for me.

    I do think there are better cabs out there, though, can't lie.
  6. Rhon

    Rhon

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2012
    if i put the volume up higher the band sounds muddy cause my boosted mids kinda covers up the sound, is that a cab issue?
  7. JimmyM

    JimmyM Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2005
    Location:
    Apopka, FL
    Disclosures:
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    Hard to tell over the internet ;)

    Really, there's no way for any of us to answer that question without being there, but you seem dissatisfied with the Acoustic cab. I'm not one to tell people to go throw money at their tonal problems, but once in a while it does help. Especially with upgrading cheap cabs. If the cab is bad, the rig sounds bad, even if you own the most primo bass and amp in the world. So while we can't say for sure that it's your problem, it's possible that it's not helping any.
  8. Downunderwonder

    Downunderwonder

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2009
    Location:
    New Zealand
    I used to play ska/reggae with 50W Marshall stack and a Fender twin SS thing, acoustic drums, a very little kick in the otherwise vocal PA. My Trace 1x15 hung out fine.

    I would have said you must be EQ'ing it all wrong too. All I know about your cab is the "budget" tagline. The only budget cabs I have played on were Ashdown, they sucked.

    You could do a lot worse than simply doubling up your existing cab. Two cabs always ups the punch dramatically.
  9. jungleheat

    jungleheat

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2011
    Location:
    DC
    So your cab is too quiet, except when it's too loud? The solution seems obvious. Set it to the point in the middle where it is neither too quiet nor too loud. Problem solved. if it's a midrange problem and you have the mids completely cranked, back them off a bit while raising the volume to make up the difference.

    I would probably zero out your bass (if it's active) and amp. At practice, keep turning up the amp until it seems like the speakers won't take it (or you just get worried), then back off a notch or 2. I'm guessing you'll be plenty loud now. If so, your cab is probably sufficient. If you're not loud enough, gradually lower the bass EQ and raise the volume. If you can't get loud enough (plus 2 notches for headroom) like that, then yes, you need a more robust cab. More power handling or more sensitivity can both get you there, but more sensitivity would probably be cheaper. Wouldn't hurt to bump up power handling to 500+ though (you can never have too much cab). Well, that's not QUITE true. Basically though, you want to have enough cab so that the speakers are getting a bit of a workout, but not so much that they're right at the limit all the time.
  10. Downunderwonder

    Downunderwonder

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2009
    Location:
    New Zealand
    Lol, I am confused by the too loud but not loud enough talk too. This does point straight at the band mix being the problem not any lack of firepower.

    It sounds like the guitar may have to leave you some more room in the EQ. Maybe not a lot more room since you mentioned it already improved.
  11. Rhon

    Rhon

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2012
    im talking about clarity, i feel like the cab has a big dip in the midrange so theres no clarity coming from the speakers, im still very new to bass and amps. idk if thats the way it is with bass amps and you just really cant hear yourself crystal clear.

    its very hard to cut through the mix and if i have the volume at a point where it blends with the distorted guitar and the drums it sounds good with me outlining the progression and you can kind of hear my licks, etc. but on the ska part the guitar switches to a clean tone and drowns out my bass and and so i compensate by turning up the volume and so then at that point im overpowering and making the band mix sound muddy.

    make sense? i have the power and cab and volume to do it, but not do it well. i feel like buying an eq pedal might help. or that maybe the speakers just are boomy and dont have clarity.

    i have the ampeg pf 500 with the settings:
    bass: noon
    mid: 2
    midrange: 3 o clock
    treble: 9 o clock
    ultra lo/hi disengaged
    gain is at 1 o clock
    and volume is from 12 to 2 o clock
  12. bongomania

    bongomania Gold Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Location:
    PDX, OR
    Disclosures:
    owner, OVNIFX and OVNILabs
    I agree with your thought about an EQ pedal, based on what you said about the guitarist switching tones. Your response to him switching tones should not be to boost the volume, but rather to switch to a new tone yourself--one that works with his new tone.

    I also think it is worth at least trying a new cab, or a second cab. In the search for solutions, that's the next logical step.
  13. Downunderwonder

    Downunderwonder

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2009
    Location:
    New Zealand
    I don't know how the EQ works on your amp but nothing looks extreme. Get guitar player to turn down the clean channel!
  14. lowphatbass

    lowphatbass **** Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2005
    Location:
    west coast
    It sounds like the weakest link in your rig is the cab, it couldn't hurt to demo something else.

    FWIW, I don't worry too much about changing my tone or volume on account of what the guitar is doing, mixing well with the drums is far more important. Sometimes a musician that's too loud will cause others to play louder, it can spiral out of control and make bands sound awful.
  15. TheRealKong

    TheRealKong

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2011
    Talk to the guitarist about sharing frequencys better! He should cut lows and deep mids, to give you the room for a bass sound that fits the needs of your band.

    If the guitar is tuned to low, and you prefer a deep talking sound, bassdrum, guitar and bass use the same frequencys. You should avoid this.

    Ciao

    Uwe
  16. Invisible

    Invisible

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2008
    Location:
    Italy
    I agree, it is a problem of eq. 4x10 is enough for everything (but I don't really like too much your Ampeg rig)
  17. sandman357

    sandman357

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2005
    Location:
    Northern Virginia
    Hi,
    Have you had someone with an experienced ear stand out 20 to 30 feet from you to hear how it sounds? What you are hearing up close to your amp is not always the same as what carries out to the crowd. I have found the 410 is actually sort of known for that. Do a search for "cant hear bass on stage" and there is a bunch of info about it. I know not hearing yourself is not your original post, but missing some of the mid frequencies could be related. Replacing your 410 with a better one may not solve your problem. Adding to it may help, I don't know. But before spending money I would try and see how the Bass sounds away from the band. Borrow a wireless system from someone and see for yourself would be best.
  18. jungleheat

    jungleheat

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2011
    Location:
    DC
    I think you have more of a band mix problem than an insufficient amount of speakers problem. The bass playing a low E should pretty much sit comfortably with the kick drum at a medium/loud attack and low E on the guitar at a medium/loud attack (whether distorted or clean, they should be balanced so that switching doesn't throw the whole mix out of whack).

    This mix should probably be figure out from the middle of the practice room, rather than any one player's position. That way your own instrument should be a little louder to you, but blend for everyone else.

    The guitarist might need to tweak his EQ settings (clean, distorted, or both), to make more room, but it sounds like he's just plain too loud during clean parts. Get him to raise his distortion volume and then lower his overall volume and a lot of the problem should go away.

    I mean, if you guys are playing ska stuff the right way, as a 3 piece, there should be TONS of space for everyone to be heard. It's not even like you have a horn section, keyboard player, etc... to compete with.
  19. jungleheat

    jungleheat

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2011
    Location:
    DC
    Bottom line, there has to be a place between not being heard and overpowering the whole mix that is "just right" and that's what you need to find. It sounds like you are having trouble hearing yourself in some spots, so instead of making a minor adjustment, you just crank the volume all the way. You have to make more subtle adjustments, going a little at a time until you get to that sweet spot.

    But your guitar player also probably has to turn down during the clean parts.

    A 3 piece really shouldn't have any mix issues unless everyone is just being as difficult as possible. 3 people working together, with the appropriate gear (which it seems like you guys have) should not be an issue.

    A beefier 4x10 would not be a bad idea, but I don't think it's necessary, and I think if you got it and just turned up, the actual mix issues would still be present and you'd all just to be too damn loud in general. And volume wars are not how good bands solve mix issues.
  20. basscooker

    basscooker

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2010
    Location:
    cincy ky
    Disclosures:
    Owner, Chopshopamps.com
    does the pf have a sweepable mid? could you be boosting the mids with the sweeping mid set too low, giving you a big bump in the higher end of the low frequencies as opposed to a more midranged bump?

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