Doublers-I need a suitable rig

Discussion in 'Amps, Mics & Pickups [DB]' started by Whit Townsend, Dec 4, 2013.


  1. Whit Townsend

    Whit Townsend

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2006
    Location:
    Hartselle Alabama
    I play primarily upright, with some slab in a local Americana outfit. Heres what I have now:

    Upright>Baggs Para Acoustic DI> an old 100w SWR Workingmans 12 combo.
    Pros: Not too bulky and heavy, 2 inputs for DB and BG.
    Cons: Not enough power. Not too fond of the SWR BG sound but its ok I guess. The DB tone is woofy with weird harmonics when I crank it to stage volume. The DB sound is passible at low vols, but once you crank the vols past halfway, things get weird. Some strings/notes sustain too long and it just dosn't sound natural. Your typical piezo pickup into cranked amp weirdness. I have to change my whole way of playing, my attack, muting, etc, to sound passable and even then it ain't great. I can always run DB thru the house, I get more headroom that way but I'd prefer having an amp as a stage monitor at least.

    BG>old 71 Silverface 50w Bassman head>old 1-15 Carvin cab. Pros: Plenty of vol for BG in my band, great old school tone, I love the sound. Much better for BG than the little SWR, to my ear anyway.
    Cons: Unusable for DB, and the head and cab weigh a ton.

    I need a modern lightweight head, ideally with 2 inputs and separate eq, that sounds good with both BG & DB. If they don't make these, then I guess I need a 2 ch Preamp of some kind. I'm thinking minimum of 300w, and a lightweight (35-50lb) cab that can do double duty as well. I'm thinking some kind of 2x10 config, or possibly a fEARful 12-6. Anybody tried fEARful cabs w DB?

    I basically need a powerful lightweight rig that I can get both a natural DB sound and a traditional old school Jamerson type BG tone out of with minimal hassle and shepping about. I'm old and its bad enough toting a DB and BG much less a big 4x or 6x 10 cab and head.

    I guess a combo would be ok if it met my requirements and wasn't too dang big and heavy. It doesn't necc have to be 200 shows a yr tour durable, but I do have to schlep it to practice and back every week. We will prob do a doz or so shows a yr ranging from small to med sized bars of 100-200 capacity ot smaller outdoor fests of 500-1000 max.

    Anybody got any ideas?

    Should I post this over in the BG amp section as well?
  2. cacophonic

    cacophonic

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2008
    Location:
    San Francisco
    You're running a "BP-100 glued to the bridge?" Hmmmm.... I think I see your problem. You might benefit most from finding a more suitable pickup before shopping for an amp. There is a huge trove of info here if you poke around a bit. Same with amps.

    FWIW, I once owned a BP-100. Lent it to a friend and never asked for it to be returned. Don't know what happened to it and don't care. Currently using a Schertler Stat B.
  3. DukeLeJeune

    DukeLeJeune Only immortal for a limited time Gold Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2008
    Location:
    Preston, Idaho
    Disclosures:
    Owner & designer, AudioKinesis; Auth. mfg, Big E (Home Audio only)
    The fEARless 12/6 has a different midrange driver than its fEARful counterpart, one that is imo a lot smoother. So depending on what your tone goals are, that might be the better choice for upright bass.

    You might contact Mike Arnopol and describe your situation and see what he suggests. Aside from being a doubler, and aside from being a builder for greenboy and a builder of an incredible line of his own (the Big E cabs; he's licensed to use their technology), and aside from being extremely competent (I'm a cab designer and I go to him for advice), he is totally reliable and honest. If, after hearing your needs, he thinks someone else's cab will better serve you, he'll tell you.

    I suggest running your amp questions by him as well.

    Definitely. There are doublers over there who don't come here very often.
  4. tyb507

    tyb507

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2004
    Location:
    Burlington, Vermont
    I'll second contacting Mike. He's a pro player as well, and he's generous with his knowledge. And you'll likely send him a deposit when the conversation's over.

    I just sold a Euphonic Audio Doubler head, which was great, if a little underpowered for driving loud stuff. But if you don't need to play REALLY loud DB stuff, it's 550W should be good, and it has some great features for doubling (2 channels you can blend or switch, one of which is optimized for DB).

    What Duke probably can't mention is his own line of cabs, Audiokinesis Thunderchild. They get a lot of love from both DB and slab players. The TC112 and TC212 are great for both DB and slab, and come up for sale from time to time. I had one (a beautiful Composite cab made by Mike, BTW) for a spell and really loved it, and probably sold it too hastily in my GASsing...though I also REALLY love the BigE MAS85 I wound up with! Mike is (as far as I know) offering introductory pricing on his BigE line through the end of the year, too!

    Also, I'll agree that the pickup you have should probably go. A Fishman Full Circle is a nice choice for loud stuff. Also, the Doubler has a notch filter that is handy for dialing out weird feedback and wolfy notes. That can probably be helped with a nice Parametric EQ, too, though I haven't gone there yet...
  5. Whit Townsend

    Whit Townsend

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2006
    Location:
    Hartselle Alabama
    Pickup is on the agenda as well. I've played a Full Circle equiped bass and am pretty sure thats what I want. But I dont have an adj bridge so that job will have to go to the luthier to fit. I've played basses fitted with the wedge thingy in the wing (RevSolo and BassMax?) and frankly don't think they sound any better than my old BP100. From all accounts the Realist aint gonna be best for as loud as I need.
    Stat B-never heard of this one sure is pricey. Maybe not tho by the time I pay a lutheir to fit a Full Circle. Worth considering.
  6. cacophonic

    cacophonic

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2008
    Location:
    San Francisco
    It could be said, in general terms, that the bass, pickup, preamp, amp, and speaker, all work together as a system. Finding the optimum combination of all those elements through experimentation and trial & error could take years and boatloads of $. I suggest starting at the source, the bass, and working your way through to the end of the chain--the speaker. A carefully considered and methodical approach will save you time and money.

    Let's assume that the bass is a given (given that you have one already) and that it's set up and adjusted the way you like it. Next in the chain is the pickup. I think this is the trickiest element in the system, as it's common for a particular pickup to sound great on one bass, or with one playing style, and totally suck on another. Some really respond to adjustment and tweaking and yield surprising rewards for patience and experimentation. Others don't. The Full Circle is popular, readily available, and seems to work pretty well across a range of instruments and styles. Fitting adjusters to a properly-made bridge is a relatively easy operation that any competent luthier should be able to do for a reasonable price, and having adjusters allows you a small range of control over string height. This would be a good starting point, I think. You can probably find a used FC in the classifieds or elsewhere.

    But before you buy a pickup, have you thoroughly explored the notch and mid-range controls of your Para-DI? ...maybe you can find a combination of settings that will tame your BP-100.

    The Schertler Stat B is more expensive than the FC and still requires modification to the bridge. It also requires considerable experimentation to get it to sound its best (at least it did for me). I play a lot of arco, loudly amplified, and found the Stat to work better than any other of the "usual suspects" for my situation. The FC was pretty good for pizz but too grainy and honky under the bow.
  7. Kael

    Kael

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2004
    Location:
    Oklahoma City
    If you don't want to get a 2 channel head, get a boss line selector (ls2 i think). Easy to use and like forty bucks.

    I built a pedal board instead of looking for a two channel head. I can send di from each instrument, tune silently, switch instruments etc from it. Plus i can use any backline amp if i need to. This really opens up what amps i can use.

    I am looking to downsize my current amp also. Tired of schleping a 410 to every gig.
  8. dukeorock

    dukeorock Gold Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2011
    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    Disclosures:
    Authorized fEARful/FEARLESS/greenboy designs builder
    I originally got my Genz ShuttleMax amps with doubling in mind, and they do work well for doubling. These days I'm using a Michael Pope MPP2, two channel pre . They're getting tough to find and they're stupid expensive, but I sure love mine. For big shows I've gotten even sillier and use the Pope for upright and a Reiner/JGR 6SL7 for electric along with several greenboy FEARLESS cabs to scale to the gig. Pretty expensive and a lot of stuff, but I'm just too happy with the sound to not do it. :) ImageUploadedByTalkBass1386355835.888054.jpg
  9. Whit Townsend

    Whit Townsend

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2006
    Location:
    Hartselle Alabama
    I think first I'm gonna get the Full Circle.
    Then prob a 500w micro head of some kind and a light 2x10 cab.
    But that's gonna require a 2 ch pre of some kind.
    MAy just spring for an EA.
  10. Wally Malone

    Wally Malone

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2001
    Location:
    Boulder Creek, CA
    Disclosures:
    AFM International Representative
    I've been using the GB ShuttleMax 9.2 with my URB and fretless jazz bass. I use the Boss LS2. For cabs I use Accugrooves sized for the gig. I have a Tri112, Tri112L & Tri110. I can use the Tri110 sans drummer and can combine any two since they are all 8 ohm cabs. The Tri110 weighs 29 lbs, Tri112L 34 and the amp 6.75 lbs.

    Wally
  11. Zoa

    Zoa

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Boss LS-2, GB Shuttlemax 9.2, and fEARless F115.
  12. dukeorock

    dukeorock Gold Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2011
    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    Disclosures:
    Authorized fEARful/FEARLESS/greenboy designs builder

    The EA Doubler? I wouldn't. Ever consider something like the Basswitch or the Radial PZ Pre before you get to the amp?
  13. vin*tone

    vin*tone

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Location:
    Ballaarat, Ostraya
    I'm finding a GK MB Fusion is great with BG and trnsparent enough for DB. Run it through a 2x10 cab and this will do for most gigging situations.

    I use an LR Baggs DI before it for notch and phase. An AB pedal would be all you need for doubling.
  14. shwashwa

    shwashwa

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2003
    +1 for that radial. i use one and can pretty much get my tone no matter what amp im going through.
  15. Ric Vice

    Ric Vice Gold Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2005
    Location:
    Olivette, Missouri
    Hello All,
    I think Whit has solved his problem for the present, as far as I can tell from reading the threads. He hasn't come back on for over a week.

    Ric
  16. tyb507

    tyb507

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2004
    Location:
    Burlington, Vermont
    Why not the Doubler, Mark?

    I was very happy with the sound and functionality of the Doubler, but found that I needed more wattage (but I play some very loud gigs without PA support) so I picked up a used 800w Focus head. I didn't need the two channels enough to pass on the Focus. If I didn't have those occasional loud gigs, I probably would have kept it. Though I think I liked the Aguilar Tonehammer 500 a little more, but only one channel there.

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