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Eden WT 600 Roadrunner

Discussion in 'Amps [BG]' started by soothsayer86, Mar 30, 2014.


  1. soothsayer86

    soothsayer86

    Joined:
    May 5, 2010
    Location:
    NH
    So I just scored a Eden WT 600 for $225. I'm brand new to Eden amps so I am looking for some general impressions of this amp. It looks to be dated from 1998. If anyone has resources besides the manual I would definitely be interested in finding out more. Is this a rare amp? Seems like I got a really good deal...
     
  2. Dave Grossman

    Dave Grossman Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2001
    Location:
    Bay Area, California
    That's a fantastic deal! I have a WT 405 Time Traveler which I like a lot. And a WT 800. Great amps!
     
  3. soothsayer86

    soothsayer86

    Joined:
    May 5, 2010
    Location:
    NH
    The master control was a little scratchy but contact cleaner took care of that pretty quick. Other than some cosmetics the thing seems to be really nice.
     
  4. caligula

    caligula

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2006
    Location:
    Germany, Europe, Planet Earth
    My 2 cent.
    I played a WT400 for more than 10 years and have gigged a WT800 a couple of times.
    I really like the inherent Eden tone, great mix between warm and modern.
    Some people say Eden amps sound super hi-fi, I never felt that way. To me they were always more "warm" than "hi-fi."
    Unfortunately, my WT400 wasn't very loud. I had it checked by a technician once and he told me the head had 296 watts, not 400.
    The WT800 was very powerful, but I never liked this 800 watts into 8ohms idea, of course they want you to play an Eden cab with the amp.
     
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  6. The Nameless

    The Nameless

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2009
    Location:
    Charleston, SC
    Bout a month ago? I scored a similar deal. 98 Road Runner. Cheap. Killer condition. I'd never used Eden, but plugged it in at a store an fell in love. The output power had me worried, as I play heavier styles as regular gigs, an sub for bands of all styles. Well, I needn't have worried. I am very familiar wit the "science" of sound, havin studied all my life as a soundtech in school an from bein an electronics repair tech anna workin musician fer the last 30yrs or so. The 300w I'm gettin runnin a 4ohm cab is PLENTY powerful. The head I was usin before had twice the power, an hit nothin like this head. Half this head, I should say. The enhance knob is tricky. I set it different than most. I found out settin my eq for a good, cuttin sound at higher volumes FIRST, an then usin a little enhance to refine or conditionin my tone was best, rather than setting the enhance first. The only the niggle I have is that there is no pre/post switch for the DI. What you do onstage to tweak your tone changes your send to the House. Honestly? I don't like this. Often, what I need to hear on a loud stage is not what the house needs for a good overal mix. It isn't a deal breaker, as the Eden sounds killer an there are options out there to "fix" the issue. But, it is slightly frustratin. I tested this head against several other heads; three Eden (500, 600, 800), SWR SM-900 an 550x, Thunderfunk 550, Mesa 400+, and a few others. Tonewise, the Eden 500 the best. Output wise, tho? They all pretty equal, with the Mesa bein king there. But, all of them got loud. I am happy to report that half this Roadrunner with my Eden 215xlt provides enuff output on stage to trick my band into thinkin I was in the PA, when I wasn't. Do research. There are some reliability issues with the heads from Eden that if addressed? You'll get a lifetime of use from these heads. And tonally, they stand up to anythin. An the eq can get you to sound like anythin you want. Great score, man. I paid more fer mine. But I'd do it again in a heartbeat...
     
  7. 4-string

    4-string Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2006
    Location:
    Norway
    I gigged a WT-600 for a few years, great amp with great EQ that you don't really need. I always found that head to be close to perfect with a minimum of tweaking.

    Enjoy. :)
     
  8. soothsayer86

    soothsayer86

    Joined:
    May 5, 2010
    Location:
    NH
    Thanks for the great info! At this point I am not sure what cabs I should be running. I own two peavey cabs, a 4x10 tx and a 115bx 8ohm both of them, and a 1000watt avatar 4x10. I am wondering how I go about bridging the two channels into my 1000 watt cab. Would this work? Just looking for a way to use the cabs I have now, while I search for the perfect 4 ohm cab(s). I have little experience with bridging and could use some info...
     
  9. Lo-E

    Lo-E

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2009
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    These are great heads. Very musical EQ - a little goes a long way! - and a great, smooth voice. I've never been a fan of "Enhance", but YMMV.

    If I were you, I'd try the combinations of cabs you have now before investing in 4 Ohm cabs. You may find you don't need them.

    If you really feel strongly about buying new cabs, look at the Eden line. Not surprisingly, they sound pretty good with Eden heads!
     
  10. The Nameless

    The Nameless

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2009
    Location:
    Charleston, SC
    Soothsayer... Those are all great cabs. If yer 1000w 410 is eight ohms, bridge the Road Runner into it. An yer golden. But if its 4 ohms? Don't bridge. You should have plenty. I have to do this wit my 4ohm 215. But again, I have plenty on just one side of the amp. The Peavey cabs are slightly different. Ya can't bridge the amp into both, gotta run one on either side. This could cause phasing issues, as the 410 will be louder than the 15. But, the balance knob a lifesaver here. Don't biamp. You'll lose output. Runnin straight stereo will keep a full range signal in both cabs, an you'll get more output than with a single cab. I've used this head into ALL kinds of cabs. It sounds great in all of em. But if I were you? I'd run both 410s together, one on each side. So far in my research, that would have the best, loudest most consistent tone. You won't need anythin else. And yes, I have found mating Eden cabs with these heads gives you the most from the Eden tone. Same with many manufacturers. But, you have pretty good cabs. Use em. You may find you love em. I bridge mine for rehearsals into an old Music Man 412-B. Killer sound. These Eden heads with that eq make any cab work.
     
  11. soothsayer86

    soothsayer86

    Joined:
    May 5, 2010
    Location:
    NH
    The Nameless-- Thanks for that input! The avatar 1000watt cab does indeed run at 8ohms. Will the 600 watts be enough to power the cab? I've heard many conflicting things like: underpowering cabs will blow your speakers, but others say its fine...

    And if I understand correctly, if I run each of my peavey cabs from L and R channels, they will only be recieving approx 190watts per channel, not the full 300. Please correct me if I am wrong, as it has been known to happen!

    Also, can someone give me an explaination of how to actually go about bridging the two channels on my amp into one 8 ohm cab? I have read many descriptions but they all seem somewhat vague. I need specifics!! :)
     
  12. The Nameless

    The Nameless

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2009
    Location:
    Charleston, SC
    A button marked Bridge Mode should be depressed. An indicator lamp will light, signifying the amp is in bridge mode. Do this with the power off, ONLY!!! There is also a button marked Biamp. Make sure this button is not engaged. On the back there are three speaker jacks called "banana" jacks. I don't know why. One banana jack for each side separately, one in the center nearer yer high side out and AC cord socket, marked bridge out. That is the jack you'll use. It's red or hot side is opposite the others. I assume your 1000w 410 has a Speakon input. You'll need a spkr cable with a Speakon connector on one end, an a banana jack on the other. Make sure the jack is inserted correctly, positive to positive. If you do reverse it? No worry. You'll know. The amp will sound like an olde tymey AM radio. Heh. Just flip the banana jack the other way. An mark it so you know which is positive. Never push the bridge mode button while the head is on.

    As far as power? I've found the Eden's output is pretty high relative to its rated power. I'm runnin 300w to a 400w cab, an it is really strong. I believe your head bridged should be plenty for the 410. Under powering a cab is a bit of a myth. And argued vehemently here on Tb. I use the term underpowering in a in a specific context. I don't believe cabs put out their rated power. Thinking that way is wrong. To get to a certain output level, each cab asks for a certain amount of power, i.e., "If you want me to get THAT loud, you have to give me THIS much power...", "THAT" loud is different for everyone, but if you try to get THAT loud, an yer cab is askin for the power to do so an you don't have it? The cab WILL get mad with you an "fart", thus pissin off yer power section, which may "fart", too, or? It may faint from a burning smell. Using two cabs will invariably get you louder than doubling the power to a single cab. But, if a single cab does the job, bridging will help the system run more efficiently, cooler an last longer. An the additional headroom will help the system feel better. You can try both ways. These heads designed to be convertible like that. I like choices. Try all configurations and see what works best for you. You have a head that can succeed at a lotta different volume levels, usin different spkr setups.
     
  13. soothsayer86

    soothsayer86

    Joined:
    May 5, 2010
    Location:
    NH
    Wow! Thanks for the in depth response! I am about to go try out the bridge mode now on my avatar 4x10! I'll let ya know what I think. Again, thanks!!!
     
  14. soothsayer86

    soothsayer86

    Joined:
    May 5, 2010
    Location:
    NH
    Well... Looks like I may need to replace the Master pot. It worked OK when running from one channel, but in bridged mode it only works at one or two points...either really low... or all the way up. I used a bit of D5 contact cleaner on it on Saturday, which took care of some of the scratchiness... needless to say I am somewhat confused. Otherwise, if I run the master all the way up and only use a bit of gain, this amp sounds killer! Just hope I am not harming the amp by doing this...?
     
  15. The Nameless

    The Nameless

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2009
    Location:
    Charleston, SC
    My friend's WT800 has same issue. His works slightly better than yers, as his works if ya bump it a bit. You aren't harming the amp runnin it that way, but, in runnin the gain that low, the eq won't work in as much detail, givin it less signal, and the compressor which some use a lot, will never kick in. Replacing the pot is not terribly difficult, but sure should be done by a qualified tech. Also, in doin research here and on Eden's forum, found out about an issue with heat, solder joints and power resistors on the board. Supposedly after 15 years or so, extreme heat leaves solder joints weak at certain points on the preamp board. These also benefit from a permanent fix. Search a thread title, "WT800 farting out", an the thread wit the issue, an details on the fix. It's fairly involved, but supposedly will have these units operating into the next century.
     
  16. soothsayer86

    soothsayer86

    Joined:
    May 5, 2010
    Location:
    NH
    Oh man... I guess now I know why I got such a "great" deal. Didn't try bridging when I tested out the amp. I just thought the pots were dirty. Oh well. It sounds awful through a single channel into the 1000watt 8ohm cab. Off to try it with the 1x15.
     
  17. The Nameless

    The Nameless

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2009
    Location:
    Charleston, SC
    Don't panic... Did you try the 410 with the head on just one channel? Make sure all is well in stereo. Replacin a bridge switch or master volume pot really is pretty easy, cheap an simple. And, from sittin a long time, or, from settin it an forgettin it, the pots an switches can get funky. It'll work. Wit jus a bit of patience. I love my Road Runner. Put a little in it, an you'll get a lot out. Promise. An you have a lotta help here. PM me if ya need. I'll help all I can...
     
  18. soothsayer86

    soothsayer86

    Joined:
    May 5, 2010
    Location:
    NH
    I did try it through just one channel, which puts out 190 watts at 8ohms (dont have a 4 ohm cab). The low notes were really scratchy sounding, though the upper register on my 6 string sounded pretty darn good. I'm not sure if there just isn't enough there to power 1000watts of speakers.

    *I did look under the circuit board with a mirror, and the four white resistors seem to be fine, no burning on the PCB or melting.*

    It also seems as if the left channel does not have any output, only the right channel when not in bridge mode.

    When in bridge mode, the master does not function, however when bridge mode is off, the master works well (a little scratchy but oh well). Any idea why this could be?

    I have always wanted an Eden, so I am definitely going to stick with it. Just tough because I wanna drop some sweet bombs with it, but it's feelin' sick.

    I really appreciate your help Nameless! I am a novice when it comes to electronics repairs, but I will definitely appreciate any help you can give!
     
  19. The Nameless

    The Nameless

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2009
    Location:
    Charleston, SC
    Good that yer stickin with it. I totally understand yer frustration. It can be absolutely maddening to have a great piece of gear have issues. Usually, the issues are small. Electronics are finnicky, an lack of use can be as damaging as overuse. I am also learnin about these heads. And our dialogue is as valuable to me as it is to you. Mine could fail. Heck, I've only had it a month. Mine works pretty flawlessly, but you just never know... First, the cab you have may be askin for more power to achieve the sound levels you desire. That could be the case, but I have a feelin that it isn't. I tested my head on two 700w , 8ohm 410 cabs, and even in stereo, 190w was plenty. Just as an overview I'm usin the Road Runner in stereo. One side into an Eden 215XLT. I run an American Deluxe 5 Jazz, passive. Not a strong bass, output wise, but tonally fantastic. I run my gain at 1 o'clock, and my loudest shows I run my master around 11 o'clock. My other cab, 8ohm, 300w 412, I bridge. Same gain setting, but the master varies dependent on our energy. Settin the amp right fer yer bass is imperative, to get a good signal to the eq and to reduce noise. Anyhow, the settings will vary dependent on the bass, playin style, etc. I'm just givin you some reference of my successful settings, so you can see where yer at. I believe 190w should get you a great sound, but, at more excessive volumes, that thousand watt cab may be askin fer more power, thus causing clippin. Also, I believe you should have a qualified tech go over the head, makin sure your master volume pot, bridge switch and all else functioning properly. I wish I could help more. I truly feel it is somethin simple, an I hate that feelin of frustration. An wish I could relieve it for you. Try both sides of the amp, in stereo, wit a single cab. Take yer time. Eliminate things in an orderly way. Once you've narrowed it down? I feel confident yer head will satisfy ya. But? I have been wrong in my past. Ha! Everybody requires different things. Nuttin wrong wit sayin , "I need more". I just think it's a simple issue. Easily could be the master pot. My buddy's 800 has a terrible master pot issue, but he never moves it. He didn't even know bout the issue til we tested our amps side by side. He still fights his, but like yers? It prolly a simple fix. btw, I've scheduled mine fer the resistor fix. I usually do these things myself, but, in this instance, takin it to a tech and sittin in on the repair. I wanna learn, an hopefully be able to help others, an you, in the future. I'll pass any info on to you, an we'll see if we can't get you happy. Jus keep in touch, brother. I gotta know what's up. An we'll share a laugh when it turns out a simple thing.
     
  20. The Nameless

    The Nameless

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2009
    Location:
    Charleston, SC
    I also just now figured why you havin issues in bridged mode. You say only one side works in stereo? Well, that could be the balance pot. And, if one side not gettin signal? That WILL have an effect on bridge mode. Do this... Plug a cab in in stereo, one side. Rotate the balance control to that side. Then? Rotate it the other way. Turnin the balance toward the side with the speaker should have no effect. Rotatin it away from the side with the speaker should cause the volume to decrease on that side, kinda like a volume control. Then , plug the speaker into the other side. An do the same tests. That'll eliminate the balance pot bein an issue. Also, while the power is off, put some of that contact cleaner into the biamp and bridge buttons, pressin them in and out a lot. Makin sure those aren't the issue. Again, sittin for a long time unused, those connections can deteriorate. Cleanin often helps. And to let you know, I am sure you would try all of this. I am not tryin to be condescending. I am just runnin down my list of procedures to eliminate what isn't wrong. If you've tried all this? Then we can move on. But sometimes just goin thru an eliminatin what could be wrong, takin notes as ya go, can eliminate concerns, an get ya closer to findin out what is wrong. I really want ya ta get the full experience of this tone, an tryin to help best I can. I gotta know how this works out now, man. Heh. If only I were there... :)
     
  21. soothsayer86

    soothsayer86

    Joined:
    May 5, 2010
    Location:
    NH
    I have tried some of these things but not all! I will check the balance control out when I get home from work and report back. I was a little worried about the amount of contact cleaner to use, as I didn't want to harm any of the PCB's or any of the other guts of the amp. I have the DeoxIT D5 cleaner, which apparently is safe on plastics, but I am always a little skeptical about spraying ANYTHING into an expensive piece of audio gear... Is it ok to just spray away in there? Again, thanks so much for your help with this, people like you are the reason I LOVE Talkbass. So much support from the community, and always somebody willing to help with an issue! Keep being awesome Nameless! Anyways, like I said, I will report results after work today.
     

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