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Fly Me To The Moon bass harmony poll

Discussion in 'Jazz Technique [DB]' started by bobsax, Nov 21, 2012.


Flat 6 or Natural 6 on the A-

  1. Aeolian with the Flat 6 ( F ) diatonic to Key of C

    10 vote(s)
    76.9%
  2. Dorian with the natural 6 (F#) not diatonic

    3 vote(s)
    23.1%
  1. bobsax

    bobsax

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2011
    Location:
    North of South San Francisco
    So In my first lesson with John Patitucci I sang a bit of Fly Me To The moon (FMTTM) with the typical walking up bass line starting on A (has the C# passing tone to D- and F# passing tone to G7)

    John said that singing and playing was a really great thing to do. So for my next lesson I'm doing it all the way in parallel harmony.
    FMTTM works great for this because the melody is almost always the 3rd moving to another 3rd.

    I noticed that in the first bar I was playing a,g,f#,e which implies a A-D7. It's kind of cool but the aeolian with the f natural sounds cool also.

    We don't need to discuss right or wrong, both are valid but I am curios what you the jazz bass players out there prefer?

    Please try it , see which you prefer and vote.

    I haven't decided but my rocker daughter likes the f#

    the notes again;
    melody c,b,a,g,f,g,a,c,b.a.g.f.e
    ---bass a,g,_,e,d,e,f,a,g,f,e,d,c
     
  2. Paul Warburton

    Paul Warburton

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2003
    Location:
    Denver, Co.
    ...
     

    Attached Files:

  3. Chris Fitzgerald

    Chris Fitzgerald Student of Life Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2000
    Location:
    Louisville, KY
    FMTMT is in C, so I would consider the white keys more "organic" except where there's a secondary dominant. The chord following the Ami also puts F natural in the ear.
     
  4. bobsax

    bobsax

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2011
    Location:
    North of South San Francisco
    I know ...I'm not worthy.:oops:.I don't want to talk about modes...never mind ...:bawl:
    ..but .. f or f# ? :bag:
     
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  6. Eric Hochberg

    Eric Hochberg

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2004
    Location:
    Chicago
    Both is good, depending on your mood.
     
  7. tito mangialajo

    tito mangialajo

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2006
    depending on your mood/mode...
     
  8. what the pluck

    what the pluck

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2010
    Location:
    Australia
    I don't know the tune, but does the progression happen more then once in the song? If so why not mix it up so f first time f# next time or visa versa.
     
  9. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 1999
    Location:
    Brighton, England, UK, Europe
  10. Marc Piane

    Marc Piane

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2004
    Location:
    Chicago
    I'm really confused by this question.

    You cannot look at any of this stuff in a vacuum. Paul is right on as always. Every note you play should have purpose and intent behind it. What are you trying to do with the note? Do you want the major 6th sound? Is it leading to the 3rd of D-7? Root of G7?

    Any of the 12 notes are at your disposal at any time. It just matters what you (and the other players) are doing at that moment, where you are coming from, and where you are going.

    In the spirit of Ed's idea of music being a conversation... you are asking the wrong question.
     
  11. bobsax

    bobsax

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2011
    Location:
    North of South San Francisco
    sorry to offend you marc:spit:

    Why don't you elaborate on the correct question:eyebrow:
     
  12. Chris Fitzgerald

    Chris Fitzgerald Student of Life Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2000
    Location:
    Louisville, KY
    I think an appropriate question would be "what are the most organic or inside note choices for this chord change" as opposed to any notion of preference/right or wrong. I found an old handout I use with one of my improv classes for this tune, and I'll attach it here. it shows the changes for the tune above the staff and a roman numeral analysis below. All of the chords except the E7alt, EØ, and A7alt are diatonic chords, meaning that they come from within the key center of C major. This explains why the notes of C major sound the most "organic" to my ear when playing over these changes.

    By understanding the key center, if you wanted to think of modes, you could deduce that in relation to C major, the Ami would be Aeolian, the Dmi Dorian, the G7 Mixolydian, the Fma Lydian, and the BØ would be Locrian. The other chords mentioned above are secondary function to the key of C, and as such require notes not in the Key of C to make them work. As listed on the attached PDF, to make the E7alt chord work, simply add a G# to the "scale" while keeping the G natural as well. For the EØ, simply change the B to a Bb. For the A7alt, keep the Bb and C, then add a C# for the duration of the chord. By doing this, you will allow the chord tones from outside the key center to function while still keeping as much of the key center intact as possible.

    Hope that made some sense.
     

    Attached Files:

  13. Jason Sypher

    Jason Sypher

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    Jan 3, 2001
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Cannot be answered. Totally depends on context.
     
  14. Eric Hochberg

    Eric Hochberg

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2004
    Location:
    Chicago
    And what you prefer HEARING. Let your ears be your guide. Using my ears, I've decided that walking down parallel to the melody line is not that satisfying either way you do it.
     
  15. HolmeBass

    HolmeBass Supporting Member

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    Jan 18, 2007
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    Charlottesville, VA
    Hey Bobsax, it was worth a try. Better luck next time.
     
  16. Roy Vogt

    Roy Vogt Supporting Member

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    Nashville,TN
    Disclosures:
    Endorsing Artist: Accuracy, Carvin, Hotwire, Conklin Basses, DNA, Eden
    I look at it according to chord function and look for cadence points
    Am7 Dm7 G7 Cmaj7 would be vi-ii-V7-I. Sort of like All the Things You Are. I would opt for the Chord tones and approach notes in a Bass Line. It's going by too fast to think about 8 notes for every bar. Just like soloing, it's not a bad idea to have a bag of walking bass "licks" (R-3-5-b5, R-2-b3-3, etc.) that you can plug in to a cycle of 4ths tune. Don't be afraid to take the simple choice, ever. Soloists like the room, IME.
     
  17. Paul Warburton

    Paul Warburton

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2003
    Location:
    Denver, Co.
    Another poll:
    Ya gotcher AABA form, ya gotcher' ABA form, yer ABAA form, etc. On this tune, I kindly ask what do you use to differenciate the two almost exact forms?
     
  18. TroyK

    TroyK Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2003
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    you've gotten some good advice here. You've gotten some suggestions and I can tell that you feel like you've gotten some attitude. For what it's worth, I think the more frustrating answers are the better ones.

    Imagine that you wanted to learn about wine and you went to a somilier forum and posted "quick, what is the best wine with steak?"

    What you think you want to know is not how they think. Other people will start shouting out their favorites or posting links or lists. The people you really want the answer from don't have an answer to the question you asked. They're not trying to be rude.
     
  19. ChuckCorbisiero

    ChuckCorbisiero

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    Aug 8, 2009
    Location:
    Los Angeles, Ca.
    It was answered in PW's 2nd post.



    EDIT- You guys posted at the same time.
     
  20. Jason Sypher

    Jason Sypher

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2001
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    I can be flip but I'm never rude on purpose. I just noticed Paul's comic, hilarious. In my opinion you can do whatever the hell you please if it works. Haven't you noticed that many of your mistakes are the most interesting choices and upon hearing them you immediately turn your head like a dog and are forced to consider the possibilites that your 'mistake' just opened up for the direction of the music? It's that 4th note of the scale that you played by accident instead of playing the tonic you intended. It all gets back to the old 'there are no wrong notes' if they create interest and beauty (or even ugliness). Most start out playing music by using our ears and then get told what scales go over what chords blah blah blah. Eventually we return to using our ears and find 'music' again....
     
  21. Chris Fitzgerald

    Chris Fitzgerald Student of Life Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2000
    Location:
    Louisville, KY
    Chris Fitzgerald and 4 others like this.
     

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