Group Buy: drivers for a 4ohm sealed 410

Discussion in 'Amps [BG]' started by derridiandrift, Feb 3, 2011.


  1. derridiandrift

    derridiandrift

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2009
    Location:
    Hamilton ON
    About a month ago I started a thread to gather info about building a 4 ohm sealed 410 cab. That thread is here, for anyone who is interested...

    http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=723707

    To summarize, I was looking for the best 16ohm 10" driver to load a sealed 410 cab for a 4 ohm total. I'm looking to build a cab that comes out sounding like 1/2 of an Ampeg 810 fridge. Basically, my goal was to create an Ampeg SVT-410HE that is 4 ohms (Ampeg only builds that cab in 8ohms).

    After some discussion on that thread, it seems that the best candidate would be the Eminence Legend B810. Here's the link...

    http://www.eminence.com/speakers/speaker-detail/?model=Legend_B810

    The only problem: Eminence doesn't build a 16ohm version of this driver. I emailed Anthony at Eminence asking what it would take for them to make a run of 16ohm Legend B810 drivers. He said "an order of 100 from an individual."

    A couple of people suggested, on my previous thread, that we should look into doing a group buy. So, let's see how many people would actually be interested in putting money down on this, assuming that Eminence would be equally interested in 25 orders for 4 drivers. That would mean 25 individuals (me and 24 more people) would eventually have to put money down with Eminence for 4 drivers.

    PLEASE DON'T BUG ANTHONY AT EMINENCE ABOUT THIS.

    If you think you are interested in being part of a group buy, indicate your interest by responding ON THIS THREAD and NOT to ANTHONY or anyone at Eminence just yet. Let's start by seeing if we can gather up 25 people interested in 4 drivers each, and then we'll work on moving forward from there.

    The first step is to convince Eminence that it's worth their effort to build this driver. The second step would be to arrange an advance purchase. We can probably move forward on the assumption that if Eminence put a 16ohm version of the B810 into production, it would be the same price as the 32 ohm version.

    For the record, if we manage to convince Eminence to do this, I'll probably have fliptops build a cab for me. Here's their link...

    http://www.fliptops.net/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=61_82&products_id=448

    I have no financial stake in this. I don't work for Eminence, Fliptops, or any other music industry manufacturer. I'm simply a guy looking to build one cab for my personal use.
  2. anonymous02282011

    anonymous02282011 Guest

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2007
    I've been looking for a smallish 4ohm sealed cab for my SVT for quite a while, something that replicates the classic 810.

    The berg NV610 is tempting, but still too big.

    I'm interested. Not ready to open my check book just yet, but definitely interested.
  3. kranahan

    kranahan Supporting Member

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    Aug 19, 2009
    Location:
    SF Bay Area, California
    Count me in! Should we start a list of members and numbers like club threads? #2.
  4. rpsands

    rpsands

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2007
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    Ugh, a 4 ohm Basslite CH2010 would make more sense to me :)
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  6. Boostedrex

    Boostedrex

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2009
    Location:
    Lincoln, CA
    Did Anthony give you a per unit price on that order of 100 drivers? That would be a good detail to list for potential group buy participants.
  7. kranahan

    kranahan Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2009
    Location:
    SF Bay Area, California
    Although I do like the fliptops cab, I think the 410HE would be a better fit. The B810 is a direct "better" replacement for the 810E. As the 410HE being the 810 chopped in half, the B810E would then be the best replacement for the 410HE, saying the speakers are 16 ohms each. What I am thinking of doing is buying vintage grill cloth and slapping it on the 410HE in order to match my SVT.

    I am assuming the B810 would be the best fit for the 410HE. Others please chime in if I am incorrect.

    I am just wondering why you are sold on the fliptops cab?
  8. 3rdcurve

    3rdcurve Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2008
    Location:
    Bourbon, MO
    I may be interested. I thought about building my own versions of the 210AVs that could handle more power - 410 vert. array. Will the cost per driver be the same as the 8 ohm?
  9. derridiandrift

    derridiandrift

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2009
    Location:
    Hamilton ON
    I think that re-loading the Ampeg 410HE is a good move as well, especially for someone who already owns one. Possible drawbacks include...

    1. MDF construction (if that matters to you) on the Ampeg
    2. Cost of buying the 410HE and then buying 4 drivers from Eminence would probably be more than having Fliptops (or any other good custom amp builder close to you) build one.
    3. If I have a cab built, I can specify grill cloth to match my SVT-VR
  10. kranahan

    kranahan Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2009
    Location:
    SF Bay Area, California
    Hmm.. Now I'm on the fence!

    Anyone else interested in a group buy?
  11. derridiandrift

    derridiandrift

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2009
    Location:
    Hamilton ON
    I think it would be safe to assume that if Eminence was convinced they could market a 16 ohm version of the B810, they'd charge the same price per unit as the 32 ohm version.

    It doesn't look like there's much interest in doing this, so the guess the whole thing is moot anyway.
  12. bgavin

    bgavin Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2001
    Location:
    Orangevale, CA 95662
    I don't see any pressing need for a 4-ohm load.

    If you run the four 32-ohm drivers in parallel, you get an 8 ohm load, and none of the loss associated with series-parallel wiring.
    This is a good thing.

    The important part is: can your amp deliver the required voltage to each driver and remain within the amp's current draw spec.
    This driver is rated at 150w, so a parallel 4x150=600w capability is required of your amp.

    There is no difference in noise level.
    The added advantage of the 32-ohm driver is two 4x10 can be run in parallel for a 4-ohm load.
    This is easily within reach of most amps.
  13. Buzz Grim

    Buzz Grim

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2003
    Location:
    Ohio
    I've been fighting the urge to make a sealed vertical 4x10 with the B810 speakers. I'm thinking about making it as two 16 ohm 2x10 cabs though so I could use just one for low volume situations. Does anyone know how a 16 ohm 2x10 would perform with a solid state head ? I've got a Mesa Walkabout (165 watts at 8 ohms) and an Swr Bass 350 (240 watts at 8 ohms). I don't think the heads would be harmed by a 16 ohm load but would there be a price to pay in tonal quality and would I get decent volume out of my available watts?
  14. coreyfyfe

    coreyfyfe Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2007
    Location:
    boston, ma
    The fliptops 4x10 is essentially the flatback 8x10 cut in half while the HE has the dimensions of the newer tilt/roll 8x10s - but cut in half. IMO - the flatbacks were/are better sounding cabs, but a lot of that has to do with the CTS speakers, not so much dimensions, and the B810 speaker is supposedly a close replication of those speakers. I guess what I'm saying is to each their own, but if I had a vintage SVT and wanted a 4 ohm 4x10 to match, I'd be looking at the fliptops cab.
  15. kranahan

    kranahan Supporting Member

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    Aug 19, 2009
    Location:
    SF Bay Area, California
    Thank you. Yeah it would be for my SVT.
  16. derridiandrift

    derridiandrift

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2009
    Location:
    Hamilton ON
    The aim is to be able to use the 2 or 4 ohm tap on a V4-BH, SVT-CL, SVT-VR, or SVTII-Pro output transformer. If I'm not mistaken, all of these amps have been built with 2 and 4 ohm taps. This doesn't preclude using an 8 ohm cab, but there are some tonal advantages to using a load that matches what the tap is expecting to see.
  17. derridiandrift

    derridiandrift

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2009
    Location:
    Hamilton ON
    I think the only difference in cabinet designs between the original Ampeg flat back 810 and all the regular sealed 810 cabs they built afterward is the tilt/roll bevels on the top and bottom that replaces the dolly on the originals. Each pair of speakers is in its own sealed box. That means that the top and bottom boxes have a smaller volume of air because of the bevel.

    The Fliptops box is exactly half of a flat back 810 (I think). The 410HE has the same overall dimensions (or very close). So at first glance, it's also exactly half of a flat back 810. However, the 410HE has a horn that straddles the "shelf" that splits the top 2x10 box from the bottom one. The shelf has a big slot cut into it so that the magnet and horn structure can fit in. As a result, the two spaces are not completely sealed off from each other, so even if all other things are the same, there will be some minor sonic differences between the Fliptops box and the 410HE.

    The CTS drivers in the original flat back 810 boxes likely account for the biggest difference between the those cabs and the ones built later, which are still GREAT sounding cabs.
  18. coreyfyfe

    coreyfyfe Supporting Member

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    Nov 19, 2007
    Location:
    boston, ma
    In that case I'd definitely skip the HE if it were me.
  19. Alexander Eddy

    Alexander Eddy

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2005
    Location:
    Out in the the bush, Australia
    Well the most sensible thing to do would use four 8 ohm drivers wired in parallel for a 2 ohm load. This might not help solid state guys, but it will work for the 2 ohm tap on the Ampegs. You'd have your choice of the entire eminence lineup too
  20. coreyfyfe

    coreyfyfe Supporting Member

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    Nov 19, 2007
    Location:
    boston, ma
    Not sure what era the OP is using, but on a vintage SVT there is no switching, only two 4 ohm outputs.
  21. Alexander Eddy

    Alexander Eddy

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2005
    Location:
    Out in the the bush, Australia
    Well wire the cab with two outputs - one for each 4ohm pair of tens.

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