Guitarist Quits nastily -- reason not understood!

Discussion in 'Band Management [BG]' started by bwardmusic, Nov 27, 2013.


  1. bwardmusic

    bwardmusic

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2008
    Location:
    United States
    Just curious what you make of this. I booked gigs over the holidays for my jazz trio, but lost my guitarist. Found a pro guitarist immediately, and had about 8 gigs for him at the going rate.

    Got his picture, gave a write-up on my website. And then a few days later he writes and says we need to talk. We set a time, he doesn't show for the call....I call and text and email to see what he wants -- fearing lack of availability.

    Finally, send a text indicating I need to know what is going on as I have gigs booked.

    He doesn't answer...later I get a text "Find another guitar player".

    I scroll through the emails, and find that on the night we talked, he said he had conflict with one of the dates, and was way to busy for the other gigs.

    I then text and apologize for sending texts asking for a convo as I just saw the text explaining his resignation.

    I ask if he wants to be called as an occasional sub, and he doesn't answer.

    Comments? Is this just a busy musician who found a better deal? Or just a callous person whose not interested in relationships? Seems pretty crass to me.
  2. P Town

    P Town Guest

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2011
    You have been jilted. Move on.
  3. punkjazzben

    punkjazzben

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    Jun 26, 2008
    Location:
    Australia
    He might be busy and he might have found a better deal, but that doesn't excuse his unprofessional behavior.
  4. electracoyote

    electracoyote

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    Jan 2, 2009
    Location:
    Purple Mountain Majesties
    I think the juxtaposed text chronology had something to do with it. I wouldn't be too hard on the guy, he tried to tell you he was too busy.
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  6. Ukiah Bass

    Ukiah Bass Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2006
    Location:
    Mendocino County, California
    Sounds like a jerk. You've tried reasonable communication and he replies like a brick wall. Move on and find someone else.
  7. frankieC

    frankieC A swell guy from Warren Harding High Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2012
    This.
  8. Joe Louvar

    Joe Louvar

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    Jun 6, 2011
    Location:
    Santa Rosa, CA USA
    +1. Yep. ^^^ This OP.
  9. oldrocker

    oldrocker

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    Feb 13, 2005
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    What's the difference between having a conflict or being too busy? Just curious.
  10. bwardmusic

    bwardmusic

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2008
    Location:
    United States
    I agree with the unprofessional part. Plus he's burned bridges like mad here. I'll never butter his bread again.

    Already found someone else to replace him. Supply and demand forces are in favor of the guy who books gig.

    Musicians with business sense are in short supply. Contract musicians are easy to find.
  11. bwardmusic

    bwardmusic

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2008
    Location:
    United States
    A conflict is when you have something going at the same time you have another commitment. Being too busy means that whatever you are too busy for is less important than other things in your life.
  12. GlennW

    GlennW Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2006
    The way I read this he didn't quit because he was never in.

    The email he sent you "on the night we talked" must have happened right at the beginning, within hours after your conversation. It looks like y'all talked, afterwards he checked his schedule and found conflicts, and then (on the night you talked) he emailed you saying he was unavailable.

    Meanwhile, you added him to your website, and you never read his email. This is all in the beginning.

    He probably thought you were flakey for posting his pic/etc on your website AFTER he sent you an email (which you didn't read) saying he couldn't make it. Your efforts at communication afterwards likely made him think you're a PITA since he declined from the get-go after checking his schedule.

    I don't see where he's unprofessional. Maybe just doesn't care to have unnecessary conversations.
  13. lfmn16

    lfmn16 Supporting Member

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    Sep 21, 2011
    Location:
    charles town, wv
    Did you know about this BEFORE you hired him?
  14. pacojas

    pacojas "FYYA BUN" Supporting Member

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    Oct 11, 2009
    Location:
    MEXICANADAMERICA
    Glenn W gets a free chicken dinner!!!:hyper:
  15. obimark

    obimark

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2011
    He doesn't like you. Some people never develop beyond third grade in the maturity department. See it every day at my six figure day job.
  16. electracoyote

    electracoyote

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    Jan 2, 2009
    Location:
    Purple Mountain Majesties
    +1
  17. Febs

    Febs Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2007
    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    Here's the way I imagine the other side of this story might sound:

    I'm a jazz guitarist with a full time roster of students and a family.

    I recently got a call from a bassist who had lost the guitarist in his trio. He offered me about 8 gigs over the holidays at a rate that was OK, but not great for the amount of time that I would have needed to invest in the gigs. I told him I would check my calendar and get back to him.

    When I got home, I checked the dates he offered me against my calendar and realized that one of them conflicted with a gig I had previously booked. For the other 7, I probably could have juggled my schedule and done the gigs, but it would have really cut into some holiday activities that I had planned with my wife and kids. I talked it over with my wife and decided it wasn't worth the money he was offering. So that same night, I sent him an e-mail thanking him for offering me the gigs, but explaining that I had a conflict with one of the dates, and was way too busy for the other gigs.

    A couple of days later, I discover that the guy has put my picture and bio up on his website and is listing me as a member of his band! I text him to ask to talk so that I can ask him to take my picture and bio off of his website, though I really don't feel like having a conversation with him since I've already made it clear in my e-mail that I've decided not to play the gigs he offered, and the fact that he put my information on his website anyway confirms that he is really not someone that I want to work with.

    He tried calling me at the time we had agreed on, but I was on another call and wasn't able to answer. The next thing you know, he is going nuts -- e-mailing, texting, and calling and leaving messages, all saying things like, "I need to know what is going on as I have gigs booked." What the hell? I already told him that I was too busy to take his gigs. Now I KNOW that I don't want to talk with him on the phone, so finally I text him, saying "Find another guitar player."

    Even then, he STILL wouldn't leave me alone! He kept sending me texts asking me if I wanted to sub with his band. By then I had had enough of the guy, so I just ignored him and he FINALLY went away.

    Is this the way it actually happened? Who knows? There are a lot of flakes out there, and it is certainly possible that he is one of them. But, if I were the OP, I would try hard to put myself in the other guys' shoes and think about how he must have felt when he saw his information on the OP's website after he had turned down the gigs.
  18. DwaynieAD

    DwaynieAD

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2010
    Location:
    Mechanicsburg, PA
    seems to be the OPs fault from the info provided
  19. bwardmusic

    bwardmusic

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2008
    Location:
    United States
    The facts aren't straight in the above two posts.

    He agreed to all the gigs before this happened. 2 were over the holidays, 6 after that in January and February. He agreed to all of them, plus one rehearsal (all we would need). He sent me his picture fo the website, and agreed to the pay -- which was in line with pay in this town.

    I only put his stuff up on the website after he agreed to it.

    All this happened over a few phone calls where he participated willingly. I'd come out to his shows before, and we'd even collaborated on a jazz improv workshop together once, although we decided to cancel it due to weak paying attendance.

    There was a good relationship as far as I knew.

    The only thing I did wrong was called him and texted him a few times after he gave his reason for not going forward -- because I didn't see the text. And after I realized he had told me his reason, I apologized and said I was OK with his reasoning -- would he like me to throw some decent paying sub work his way now and then?

    He didn't answer.

    In my view, the mistake I made, and my subsequent apology, doesn't justify rudeness.

    My conclusion is that this was actually a positive thing. Often you don't find out about aspects of a person's personality until you get into the thick of working together in the band. At least I know now before I invest anything further in the guy.

    One thing's for sure, as a full-time working musician (who told me he was free for all the dates in Dec, Jan and Feb originally), when he hits a dry spell, he'd better look elsewhere for paid contractor work.

    One thing I expect from most people is civility, and he's no exception.
  20. bwardmusic

    bwardmusic

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2008
    Location:
    United States
    No -- read above. We had a good relationship. He'd even tried out for an 80's band a year or two ago, but didn't proceed with the offer to play because he wanted to focus on jazz....

    This was a jazz gig.
  21. Stinsok

    Stinsok Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2002
    Location:
    Central Alabama
    Good riddance to bad rubbish.

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