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Help, I need rig advice

Discussion in 'Amps [BG]' started by Hekskirken, Jan 8, 2013.

  1. Hekskirken

    Hekskirken

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    First time poster, long time lurker here.

    Anyway I have a bit of a conundrum, I play in a pretty loud metal-ish band with a guitarist who uses a lot of gear. I have an SVT Vr, a P bass, and an 810 and I'm still competing.
    I find that I have to run my eq below 5 on all fields in order to not sound too woofy while competing with the guitarist.

    So I have this inefficient bassman 2x15 laying around and a peavey cs400 power amp. I need speakers for 2x15 and I'm planning on running my preamp from the SVT into the power amp.
    I do have all this stuff just collecting dust, however I don't want to buy the speakers if the cab isn't worth it. And I'm really just looking to be a little grindier and more prominent in the mix with a lot of punch and if this is a fools errand to put this budget second rig together I'd like to know.

    Im currently looking at eminence betas, or I have a line on some cheap peavey scorpions. Any advice would be awesome, other than tell the guitarist to turn down:rollno:

    Also I have the boss ole dirty bastard for grind, any suggestions on similar pedals that aren't overkill on the fuzz or kill my lows would be awesome!

    Thanks and Hello all.
  2. scottfeldstein

    scottfeldstein Supporting Member

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    First, turning all your EQ knobs down below noon is basically just...turning down. You might find you can turn the volume knob a bit higher, but you could have done the same thing by leaving them at noon and leaving the volume where it was.

    Instead, try turning the low frequencies down and turning up the mids. That's usually the key to getting heard in a loud mix.

    But really? You're putting, what, 300 watts through an 810? You don't need different gear. What you really need to do is turn the heck down.
  3. scottfeldstein

    scottfeldstein Supporting Member

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    Also, I can't imagine your 215 being inherently louder than your 810, no matter what drivers you put in 'em.

    You reminded me, though, that I used to own that Peavey power amp. I had one of those in a rack with a 32-band EQ and a crossover straight into a home-built 118/210 cab. What a freaky rig that was.
  4. The Nameless

    The Nameless

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    Hear hear! Turnin down to rehearse has serious benefits all the way round, let alone savin yer hearin for later use. I promise no stage will hold that kinda volume. Play a show. Listen to soundman's recommendations. Prolly just "turn down". When ya done wit show, leave settings. When ya go ta rehearse? Stay there, no more. If guitard says he can't hear ya? Tell him ta turn down. Refuse ta turn up. If ya ain't giggin yet, go catch some local shows. Talk wit the player. Pay attention to his volume an settings. Also, only turn up til ya even wit acoustic drums/kick drum. Any louder is overkill, and can hinder ya in many ways. 300 watts into 8 tens has ruled the world fer volume fer years. It ought ta serve any gig. Eq advice above on point, too.
  5. Hekskirken

    Hekskirken

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    Yeah I have the eq at about 11 and I did have to turn up like you said, but I guess it's more grindey without being too sub low woofy as it was before. And I will be running both the 810 and 215. And trust me we are running a full and a half stack for guitar so I am competing to be heard in the mix.
    I guess I was mainly looking for advice whether the 215 i have with efficient drivers would be worth it for bass or if I should step up to a deeper, ported cab.
  6. scottfeldstein

    scottfeldstein Supporting Member

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    Do you plan to run both cabs with the same amp? And how much would those new drivers cost, do you figure?
  7. Downunderwonder

    Downunderwonder

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    Sigh, it's not supposed to be a competition. Usually 8x10 and 300w tube amp is more than sufficient to play WITH a band.

    +1 to exploring EQ, and getting guitardo to explore his rhythm sound also. Place rigs side by side and have at it. When you take away the bass the guitar will sound a little thin, SO WHAT, YOU PROMISE NOT TO STOP PLAYING!

    -1 to adding 2x15 rig to 8x10 rig. It won't be "grindier", it will be muddy sludge and highs be gone walkabout in disgust.

    More bass, less noise.
  8. scottfeldstein

    scottfeldstein Supporting Member

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    I'm not one of those guys who will tell you that my mini rig with it's 12" speaker is adequate to keep up with a rock drummer. But if you can't hear yourself standing in front of an 810 with 300w going into it something isn't right and you probably shouldn't try to build your way out of it. I hope you're all wearing ear protection religiously at these jam sessions.

    Any guitar player who has a full stack for playing bars and clubs is a wanker.
  9. ma4rk

    ma4rk

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    Seriously, take everyones advice & get the whole band to turn down & Drummer to use lighter sticks. You'll find the band sounding better cos there is no volume competition & when you get a gig it won't be so bad because you'll be used to the lower volume that the sound guy will NEED you to play at.
  10. Downunderwonder

    Downunderwonder

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    Thay aren't going to turn down but they can re EQ without losing face.

    OP: It seems the majority of US metal bar gigs are done with vocal PA. You will do well to keep the volume down to not drowning out the drums.

    Then the drummer will have to keep it down to the level of said vocal PA or your vocals will be a distorted mess if not virtually inaudible. The lighter sticks mentioned come in handy for that.
  11. The Nameless

    The Nameless

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    Well, we don't want the op ta feel attacked or scolded wit no reassurance that we are speakin from experience. I think we all been here, fellas. Over years, I've played in some DAYum loud bands! An when younger, I tried to build a rig ta top crazy loud, two guitar metal projects. The competition went outta control. I didn't know this then. The volume was reason for many, many negatives. Liftin unecessary huge rig, lessenin my experience playin shows. Debates wit soundmen at shows, sometimes heated, heh, wit me/band always losin respect, his status remained. Hearin loss. Band not tight cuz yer HEARIN yerselves, but not listenin. Blown up gear. Who can afford that? All this leadin to fewer gigs, frustration. Controllin volume is a "technique" that should be discussed up there wit slappin, tappin, etc. The ability to control it, and not lose tone/power of your/band's delivery is a very big aspect of what separates pros from us weekend warriors. The advice we givin here we've learned from pros, who learned from their teachers. It's one thing ta play big stadium shows wit massive rigs. Hometown stages? Yer rig is more than enough for ANY room. I promise. Sometimes rehearsal halls are hardest to hear in. That is where learnin ta compromise in all aspects is most important. Yer there ta learn, tighten up yer act. NOT to perform. In my opinion. I fought for sonic space back in day. Today, guys I play wit seem to understand the value of compromise. In volume. Lots else. Today I'm usin a rig half the size of yours, in a heavy rock trio and a funk/electronica band. I'm still bein told ta turn down. Heh. That rig'll work, man. Be patient. Experiment wit eq, especially cuttin lows, boostin mids. Learn yer rig. That stack will blow back walls out. I don't agree wit addin 15s. Another 810? If must? Would be better way ta go.
  12. scottfeldstein

    scottfeldstein Supporting Member

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    I've played loud, too. Even recently! I was jamming with some dudes for like 8 or 9 months, right after I decided to get back into music. Guitar player had a 40w Hot Rod Deluxe with a single 12" speaker in it--but Christ that thing was unholy loud. And he EQd it like crap, too. So there's me, 500w GK going into an Ampeg 810...and being completely buried. His guitar sound practically blew my hair back. And the drummer was micing his kick at rehearsal! It was ridiculous. And everyone had to be really careful to wear ear protection at all times. I think it was the dumbest thing I've ever done musically in my entire life.

    Anyway. Cut your own lows, boost your mids. If you can, get guitar boy to cut HIS lows. Those guys love their bass knob, feel like they can orchestrate the entire ensemble out of their own rig. But everyone has to have their own space in the EQ or you end up with crap.
  13. Hekskirken

    Hekskirken

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    +1 to everything you guys are saying.

    I definitly agree about adding another 810, also, my guitar guy does boost the bejebus out of his lows. Hell, he even used a modded odb3 for awhile. I'm going to experiment with my eq at practice, up my mids and see if I can cut a little more. I guess I feel like running another rig just to add some more grind to my tone and diversify a bit, just for dealing with different rooms at gigs. I really feel like sometimes depending on the room my 810 Svt is enough almost too much at times, then other places, I'm buried.
    I played around through my guitar stack and my bass rig together last night and I didn't really need my od pedal too which was nice.

    I'll post more after my eq experiment at practice
  14. The Nameless

    The Nameless

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    Guitarists in newer metal do seem ta take up space that used ta belong ta us bassists. Seven strings an current production, 'twould seem. The 12s idea, addin a bit of grind, a good idea for addin definition. Overdrive is essentially addin harmonics, thus mids. Another good idea is ta get really rollin at a rehearsal, then switch standin positions wit guitar guy. Gettin away from your rig can help ya ta hear what that rig actually doin. Stand where guitar guy usually is, have him stand in your place. And a reminder. You guys want the band to sound good. Together. Not just individuals hackin away. It will take some compromise. Not sacrifice. Getcher guitar buddy ta work wit the band. And you, too.
  15. Downunderwonder

    Downunderwonder

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    QFT
  16. The Nameless

    The Nameless

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    QFT? You'll haveta forgive my lack of abbreviation knowledge. Heh
  17. Downunderwonder

    Downunderwonder

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    quoted for truth
  18. The Nameless

    The Nameless

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    Ah... I appreciate. 'Tis about the band's sound, in end. Some forget this. Thankya!
  19. The Nameless

    The Nameless

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    Sometimes I get the "quit f'n talkin" qft. Ha!

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