How do the super 112 cabs stack up against compact 212 cabs?

Discussion in 'Amps [BG]' started by monsterthompson, Nov 7, 2013.


  1. monsterthompson

    monsterthompson The Eighth Note Wonder Of The World Supporting Member

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    Just pondering my navel lint, and it dawned on me that there are some compact 212 cabs that aren't much bigger or heavier than some super 112 cabs, and in a similar cost range. For example, the Baer ML112 is $700 and weighs 37lbs, and is 23x17x17. In that price range, the TC RS212 is 52lbs and 26x14x20. Similarly. the Markbass NY122 is 50lbs and 28x15x14. Also, I think at that size, and extra 10-15lbs is still pretty easy to handle. Obviously, the Berg CN212 is pretty light, but it costs a pretty penny, so I feel like it falls outside of this clustering of 212s for this discussion. Though the 12/6 gets up there in price, and it is 24x17x15, and also in the 35-45lb range.

    Aside from the physical attributes, what would be an argument for going for a 112 vs a compact 212, or vice versa? Obviously, the super 112s have nicer drivers and crossovers. However, I've found multi driver cabs to have some magic that single drivers don't.

    Just wondering out loud.
     
  2. hennessybass

    hennessybass Supporting Member

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    Interested to see what people say about this...

    I have a Berg CN212 (love it) but am interested in a "small" cab for when space is tight (when the band travels in two cars instead of a van/trailer). I have a Ampeg SVT210, but it can't really cut the mustard volume wise. Been thinking about a 12/6 design, but not sure that is my thing. Had a Baer ML112 and didn't really care for it.
     
  3. KJung

    KJung

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    Kind of hard to answer the question. Would I rather have a top of the line lightweight 'super 12' or a heavy and/or cheap 212, well, depending on a person's tone goal, most likely the single super 12 (although they all sound different).

    Would I rather have a lightweight high quality 212 that has the same footprint as most small 12's and is not much heavier, and will produce significantly more output than any single 'super 12' and at a significantly lower cost than two high end single 12's... well... yes:D
     
  4. PDGood

    PDGood Supporting Member

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    The boutique builders are generally aiming for a particular niche and that's who makes the super 112s. I can tell you about Audiokinesis since I have two, and I'm sure others can join in on the merits of Baer and Berg etc.

    The TC112 has blockable ports that allow you to tune the cabinet. It has a horn that improves dispersion - but since horns tend to have a nasal sound, the builder has incorporated electronics inside that act like a parametric and flatten the peaks. Some models also have a rear firing tweeter that helps clear the sound heard by those behind you (drummers for example) and also provides some clarity for yourself if you're set up near a wall. There's also a roll-off switch for the highs. The driver is a long excursion pro-sound model such as you'd find in a high end studio monitor.

    The end result is that he's basically built a studio monitor that is bass guitar friendly and built to withstand the rigors of the road. That's a very specific profile. The big builders tend to aim more for general population appeal.
     
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  6. preside

    preside

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    I use a TC BC212 an love it. Drive it with a GB 6.0 and its fat and warm. Only downside is rear ports so I do have to keep it 3 ft from the wall to get the full impact of the cab. But I am very happy with this setup.
     
  7. KJung

    KJung

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    Just FYI, you need to keep it about 4" from the wall to get full impact;)
     
  8. KJung

    KJung

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    Yes, all these cabs sound way different, and no amount of knob turning will make one sound anything like the other (at least with the LF loaded boxes versus more traditional full range driver boxes).

    For example, I found my Thunderchild TC115 (4ohm) kept up pretty well with my CN212. Totally different tone profile (that you described very nicely). Cabs were about the same cost, and the wooden version of the TC115 is about the same weight. So, the 'single super 15' is IMO a bit more of an 'apples to apple's with a high quality 212.

    The Baer ML112 is in the same general tone profile of the CN212 (with a shift of the midrange presence up a bit... easy controlled with EQ on that one). I am considering purchasing one of the new Baer ML115's when they are released early next year. They are 8ohms, so will take a bit more power from my solid state heads (I have a DeMonique coming, and something about a 15" with a very warm, organic sounding mid driver like Roger's design with 400-500 watts and a P bass makes me smile), but should be a nice 'slightly different' flavor as a secondary/backup cab. Very, very different again from the fEARful cabs, that are more like a large PA cab. Lots of different flavors in relatively small footprint boxes!
     
  9. Doug Parent

    Doug Parent Gold Supporting Member

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    A light 2X12 (CN212, AE212 for example) is a handy "grab and go" scenario. The single 12 in a pair scenario is scalable. I like both options. Worth a ponder. Perhaps cost in the final analysis?
     
  10. monsterthompson

    monsterthompson The Eighth Note Wonder Of The World Supporting Member

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    Yeah, I think the TC vs Baer is the close contrast to look at. Similar cost and size, both 8ohm, and similar wattage profile.

    The CN 212 clearly trumps a Super 112, but you pay for it, and the size starts to get a little bigger than a "compact" 212.
     
  11. KJung

    KJung

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    I would guess the RH212 or whatever they call it, would outperform a single ML112, but would be WAY bigger (that cab is REALLY deep front to back) and WAY heavier. Again, apples to oranges, but if 'maximum output per dollar' is you key criterion, then 'cheaper and bigger' will almost always beat 'expensive and smaller' regarding max output. Tonally, it would be a toss up depending what you are looking for.

    If you are talking about the low end TC212, that one I haven't tried.
     
  12. MuthaFunk

    MuthaFunk

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    When I read this I had to respond with what has now become my favorite gigging cab, the Xsonics 212CF. It's tone is not for everyone but who makes a cab that is?

    For me, the 212CF has accomplished what KJung has listed above, at least to a certain degree. I personally enjoy the tone and volume I get from it. I find the 3012HO speakers employed within benifit from some sort of HPF set really low to effectively hit the upper volume limits but it is capable of remarkable things.

    Not much bigger than the Bear and only weighs 42 lbs.

    Just another thought to consider. I haven't tried any of the other 12's mentioned in this thread but I have a pair of Mesa Scout cabs. Very different beasts, so the comparison wouldn't apply here.
     
  13. Not yet

    Not yet

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    What didn't you like about the Baer?
     
  14. monsterthompson

    monsterthompson The Eighth Note Wonder Of The World Supporting Member

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    I was thinking the TC RS212. Dimensions aren't that much larger, but it is 10-15lbs heavier.
     
  15. KJung

    KJung

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    It is about 20" deep with rear ports.
     
  16. hennessybass

    hennessybass Supporting Member

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    I didn't love a couple things with the form factor, which seem to be an issue that is specific to me :meh: Also never had one of those "ya, this is bad ass" kind of moments. Probably just me, but I have had more luck with a traditional full range driver type set up. I kind of kept thinking I could hear the 12" and 6" as two separate pieces rather than one seamless sound. Again,, probably just me.
     
  17. preside

    preside

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    Thanks for the tip Jung, is there any draw back th having the rear wall almost 7 to 8 feet back? One club I play at has a very deep stage.
     
  18. monsterthompson

    monsterthompson The Eighth Note Wonder Of The World Supporting Member

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    Ah. I was thinking the physical dimensions weren't that different, but I see your port point in terms of stage size.
     
  19. brianrost

    brianrost

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    I look at the percentages...adding 15 pounds to a 35 pound cab is an extra 40%...that is significant.

    Yeah, more bottom from the doubled cone area but notches in the mids from phase cancellation :crying: That's physics, not magic...
     
  20. KJung

    KJung

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    No different than a front ported cab. The sound coming out of a well designed port if mostly omnidirectional. Should be zero issue. Of course, any time you change boundary conditions on any cab, it will sound a bit different, but nothing to worry about.

    The only issue with a rear port is to leave enough space behind it so that the airflow is not blocked. 4-6" and you are good!
     
  21. KJung

    KJung

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    Yeah, that would would sit out on the stage a bit, and a bit cumbersome to lift IMO.
     

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