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Ibanez Promethean Startup Problem: No More Parts

Discussion in 'Amps [BG]' started by tekhedd, Jan 31, 2014.


  1. tekhedd

    tekhedd Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Location:
    USA
    I have a Promethean P5110 (the P500h head) that is starting to show the "slow startup" problem that they get before the power supply goes out. I contacted Ibanez, and the repair department basically told me they have no more power supply parts, and it's not repairable.

    Has anyone successfully had one of these power supplies repaired outside of Ibanez official support? (ie without just replacing the power supply board) I have a good repair tech here, but "switching power supply startup problems" are pretty tricky.

    I'm not sure how I can live without it. What will I do? I may cry.
     
  2. B-string

    B-string Gold Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2008
    Location:
    Lake Havasu City, Az USA
    Is it a SMPS or line frequency supply? Pic?
     
  3. David A. Davis

    David A. Davis

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2008
    Location:
    Christiansburg, VA
    Did Ibanez happen to say anything about using a power supply from a P3110??
     
  4. JB36

    JB36 Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2010
    Location:
    Albany, NY
    Double check the website, but I believe these are under 5 yr warranty which would make any of these amps still under warranty. Even I wasn't the original owner, I would make a big stink to anyone that would listen. Who makes and amp and can't get a part for it with in a couple of years? I own one and I would still be covered. So does this mean Ibanez can't honor it's warranty because they can't get a part? I dealt with the repair depot in Bensalem PA and had good service. I would call this lcoation.
     
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  6. tekhedd

    tekhedd Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Location:
    USA
    [edit] Not the original owner, I bought it used. :( Won't make THAT mistake with an Ibanez product ever again.

    I'm pretty sure the 3110 (p300H?) supply wouldn't work, as it's not rated for as much power, and usually the power supply is the limiting factor. Although now that I say that it's worth checking. I wouldn't bet on it though.

    I'm not sure who I was talking to, but I got the impression that repair parts simply aren't available within Ibanez. (And I got the impression that "repair" means "replacing the power supply board entirely.)

    I was told they might be able to email me a schema for my tech, but I haven't seen it yet. Possibly got the email address wrong. I don't suppose anybody here actually has one?

    I'm actually quite disappointed. The only reason I bought one used is because they're not available new. Now that I see how they support their out-of-production products, I'm starting to wonder if I just threw away a bunch of money. Carvin would never do me this way. (Of course, I bought a Carvin micro head, and it sure didn't sound this good...but on the other hand, who cares how good it sounds if it won't turn on!) OK! Enough ranting.

    First goal: find a schema and look at the PS board. It seems to take longer to turn on when it's cold, therefore most likely related to manufacturing process issues--ie bad solder?
     
  7. BassmanPaul

    BassmanPaul Gold Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2007
    Location:
    Toronto Ontario Canada
    I would imagine that the board swap would be the entire amplifier PCB. It makes no sense in producing a dedicated PCB for the power supply alone. Your user name implies that you have technical ability. If so may I wish you well in getting your unit to function again.

    i would have thought that Ibanez would have had some sort of a service chain set up in the US. Perhaps sending the unit to them would put the ball back onto Ibanez's shoulders.
     
  8. Eight_Stringer

    Eight_Stringer

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2009
    FWIW, and that could be nothing. Startup problems on certain types of SMPSU are related to a "sustain" winding on the transformer, more directly the filter capies associated, on initial switch on, the kick in the winding elevates the feedback voltage rail to then sustain the controller ic or circuitry, if the cappy is tired or faulty the rail does not sustain, the PSU shuts down or restarts. Easy things first, look for any bulging caps on top of the capcitors on the PSU pcb, replace and try again. There are some good websites that relate to bad capies.

    As for parts no longer sourced, reason i have quite repairs after 40 years, not worth the drama and now we have counterfit components!! Enough for me, just sit under a tree, way more calm... you will see a lot more old repair blokes under trees i fear... grin.

    Send me the schematic if your inclined OP, perhaps i can suggest something more precise in diagnostic process. Regards.
     
  9. HaphAsSard

    HaphAsSard

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2013
    Location:
    Italia
    Old post with a link to a blog by the engineer at Beta Aivin who designed the Promethean as well as their own micro head, later marketed in Europe under different names (Harley Benton, White Horse, Red Sub):
    http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/ibanez-promethean-564381/index18.html#post9640515
    The preamp section is different in their version, the rest of the innards should be the same according to this chap:
    http://basschat.co.uk/topic/168416-another-promethean-clone/page__st__90__p__1634150#entry1634150
    Other players who had their Prommie act up (or down):
    http://basschat.co.uk/topic/217066-ibanez-promethean-5110-repairs/
    http://basschat.co.uk/topic/221395-promethean-p5110-repairs/
    Beta Aivin website:
    http://www.beta-aivin.com/English/Index.html
    And their PA division (uh, because this is in decent English):
    http://www.elderaudio.com/
    Bottom line: you might have luck in ordering the part directly from them.
     
  10. tekhedd

    tekhedd Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Location:
    USA
    Thanks for the comments and links.

    Ibanez has helpfully (?) sent a schema for the power and preamp boards (240V version but whatever). I see an off-the-line power supply with a certain amount of magic that I don't fully understand...it looks like the startup/feedback circuit uses a separate inline transformer. Clearly startup here is going to be a bit of magic though. A single bad component or bad connection would spell the end (but what I'm looking for here is one that is borderline, which isn't as fun!)

    Anyway, thanks. I'll update if, well, I have any luck at all.
     

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