ICE Power Class D

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Natman, Dec 16, 2013.

  1. Natman


    Oct 22, 2013
    Hey guys, looking in my Rumble 150, I saw this power unit:

    I was a little surprised to see it is just 2 bridged 50W sections and I'm not really sure how that equals 170W (220 W peak). Anyway I wanted to see if anyone has DIY experience with these things?

    There are other models of course but some of the jargon on the ICE website is over my head. I want to know if I can (easily) bump the power in my amp by replacing the module or adding another one? Alternatively I may want to try building a hybrid of my own using a tube preamp but that's a long term goal...

  2. BurningSkies

    BurningSkies CRAZY BALDHEAD

    Feb 20, 2005
    Seweracuse, NY
    If you don't have amp building or tech experience, then you're not going to want to go there...It's not just a simple drop in, or if it was others would have been doing this before. ;) On the wattage, you'd be surprised at how different companies have engineered around the ICE units to get different wattage levels out of them... They're the heart of a whole bunch of different amps.
  3. teemuk


    Mar 1, 2011
    Here's a basic example,

    Let's assume we have one SE amp (read: single mono block) generating 10V across a 10-ohm load. This results to 1A current, thus 1Ax10V=10W.

    Now we have two such SE amps driving a 10-ohm load in bridged mode. This generates 10V+10V=20V across the 10-ohm load. This results to 2A current, thus 2Ax20V=40W.

    Thus, bridging theoretically has the capability to quadruble power output in comparison to single mono block.

    The amplifiers have to operate on certain supply voltages that impose certain limits so the bridged mode can generate much more power with those voltage limits.

    The 2x50W in SE mode and 1x170W in BTL mode seem like quite conservative ratings to me. The output power didn't actually quadruble in practice (which is usually expected in real-life circuits with certain waste power dissipation limits) but overall the trend is clearly evident.

    If you look at ICEpower website the quoted 220W is NOT peak rating, it's maximum output power rating at 10% THD, which is to be expected when the amp generates 170W at 1% THD. Higher distortion = higher output power.
  4. Natman


    Oct 22, 2013
    Yeah I hear you, but I have built a number of guitar amps. True this will be my first dive into bass amplification, but I'm not afraid. My whole reason for looking to ICEpower was because they seem to be used everywhere and probably as "drop in" as you can get. They are marketed as an all-in-one power solution.

    I know some of the implications related to design, took a course in university though it was a few years ago. Thanks teemuk -I figured it was along those lines. Hey I'm looking to learn all I can, that's why I'm asking you pro's!
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  6. OldogNewTrick


    Dec 28, 2004
    Germany, EU
    The commercially available bass amps with ICEpower units are either using the 125ASX2 or the 250ASX2 units, nobody, AFAIK, uses the small 50ASX2 BTL.

    And, +1, power management engineering to milk every bit of available power. IMO, there is a certain degree of smoke blowing going on in published specs due to measuring different burst cycles and at different levels of THD/N
  7. seamonkey


    Aug 6, 2004
  8. two fingers

    two fingers You tahkin 'uh me? Yeah, you. You tahkin 'uh me? Gold Supporting Member

    Feb 7, 2005
    Eastern NC USA
    Has anyone found a schematic for the ICE itself? A friend's had one go bad a while back (on the same amp as the OP) and I tried to help him out. But at the time I could not find a schematic of the unit itself. One component on it was so fried I couldn't even tell what it was. Without knowing what it was it was kind of hard for me to "reverse engineer" what it was and replace it.
  9. B-string

    B-string Supporting Member

    Trying to reverse engineer a class D module would be a daunting task without a full understanding of PWM as it is adapted to audio use. Class A, B, A/B, G and H are much more "cut and dry" typologies.
  10. BassmanPaul

    BassmanPaul Gold Supporting Member

    Aug 25, 2007
    Toronto Ontario Canada
    You can buy a Class D stereo power amp for a few hundred bucks. It's much easier and often much cheaper to just build a tube pre-amp to drive such a power amp. It's what I did.
  11. fdeck

    fdeck Supporting Member

    Mar 20, 2004
    Madison WI
    HPF Technology: Protecting the Pocket since 2007
    Looking at the datasheet for the IcePower linked above, Fender's power rating seems credible. The same module is in the GK MB200 head. It even seems that Fender is trying to pull away from the stratospheric power claims made by a number of amp makers. If the Genz-Benz crew has anything to do with Fender amp designs going forward, it will be a pleasure to watch.
  12. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Development Engineer-Mesa, Product Support-Genz Benz
    Correct, this is accurate info.
  13. BassmanPaul

    BassmanPaul Gold Supporting Member

    Aug 25, 2007
    Toronto Ontario Canada
    Perhaps I'm a thickie today but Say what??? :)
  14. B-string

    B-string Supporting Member

    I did a google on it Too Long Didn't Read is what I came up with? Made me search also :cool:
  15. wcriley


    Apr 5, 2010
    Western PA
    You mean I'm the only one in the Grumpy Old Guys Club who knew what TLDR means?

    (I Googled it a year or two ago.) :bag:
  16. B-string

    B-string Supporting Member

    That's one reason why you are #1 Bill :D
  17. bucephylus

    bucephylus Supporting Member

    Aug 18, 2002
  18. B-string

    B-string Supporting Member

    Hahaha nice! :)
  19. BassmanPaul

    BassmanPaul Gold Supporting Member

    Aug 25, 2007
    Toronto Ontario Canada
    <Sigh> I think I'm getting' old!! :(
  20. B-string

    B-string Supporting Member

    I Have Attention Deficit Disorder :cool: