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Ideal range of the amp

Discussion in 'Amps [BG]' started by WashburnAB95, Jan 16, 2014.


  1. WashburnAB95

    WashburnAB95

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2013
    I know this has come up before so please induge me. When the question of "how low should my amp go?" We always hear about over tones and the need of listening to amp/cabs and picking what sounds best. I totally get that. I also understand you can have a very pleasant tone without much of the fundamental being present. So this brings me to my question...


    I play a five string bass. If I was putting a together a rig from scratch (either bought or some parts home built) In a perfect ideal world What should my goal for lower frequency extension be?

    Two questions
    Is a reasonably flat responce down to 32hz realisticly possible?
    Would this actually be desireable in a bass rig?
     
  2. bgavin

    bgavin

    Joined:
    May 3, 2001
    Location:
    Orangevale, CA 95662
    OP, the lower it goes, the bigger the box, and/or the higher the power consumption.

    The Acme series is the deep bass with low sensitivity group.
    The Eden XLT series is the strong mids with high sensitivity group.
    There are others, and all shades in between.

    You cannot buy a rig on paper.
    Auditions with the ears are required.

    If you want to roll your own, the Eminence LAB12 in a sealed B2 is -3dB at 41 Hz, about -7dB at 31 Hz.
    If you want to make a vented box out of this, it will go even lower.
    Sensitivity is very low for this driver (I have one on order).

    It all depends on what you want to do with it.
     
  3. Mr. Foxen

    Mr. Foxen

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2009
    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    Disclosures:
    Amp tinkerer at Ampstack
    Places you play in are pretty key. Lots of the time, you want to let the house handle the lows. But if your rig needs to cover them, you have to pay attention to that.
     
  4. BurningSkies

    BurningSkies CRAZY BALDHEAD Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2005
    Location:
    Seweracuse, NY
    This is probably a better question when considering speaker cabinets rather than amps. Very few if any really go 'flat' to 32hz, and if they do, you probably wouldn't like it. I play a cab that can go very deep (although I wouldn't say flat to 32hz), and I use a HPF to roll it off steeply starting at 35hz. The audible difference of the sound heard right from the speaker is negligible...but the difference in what you hear 'in the room' is big...and in a good way.
     
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  6. WashburnAB95

    WashburnAB95

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2013
    Maybe I should ask my question differently.... If you have a system that can go really low how often does that actually sound good? Isn't there some rooms that no matter what you do won't sound good with a lot of bass?

    As to audition first.... kind of hard when you want to go from scratch. I want to build my cab and maybe down the line build a pre amp as well. I don't really see the point of building your own power amp.

    "Let the House take care of the lows" I do mostly church stuff and so far have never had access to a pa that can handle the lows. I am hoping that having great low extenstion on my bass will really add to the visceral experince of worship.
     
  7. Downunderwonder

    Downunderwonder

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2009
    Location:
    New Zealand
    If you can get solid 60hz you'll be doing more lows than 99.9% of all the bassists that ever lived.

    There are a few on TB that are in the 0.1% They mostly run Acme cabs.
     
  8. Joe Louvar

    Joe Louvar

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2011
    Location:
    Santa Rosa, CA USA
    How large is the worship room and is the room acoustically treated or is it like a reverberating gym room?
     
  9. Downunderwonder

    Downunderwonder

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2009
    Location:
    New Zealand
    To make a visceral amount of sound down at 30hz for a whole congregation takes a whole half a dance club worth of subwoofers.
     
  10. WashburnAB95

    WashburnAB95

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2013
    My home church seats 450 or so people with a very high ceiling. Most of seating is in the middle section but their are also two small wings. It has a tendency to get a bit muddy in the low mids 200-300hz or so. There is a nice natural reverb in the room but it doesn't echo. I don't think the room has ever been acousticly treated. But the natural acoustiscs really arn't bad.

    Otherwise I am on the go and who knows where I might end up.
     
  11. Joe Louvar

    Joe Louvar

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2011
    Location:
    Santa Rosa, CA USA
    450 seats and no sound reinforcement?

    PS: the wings may need extra consideration.
     
  12. WashburnAB95

    WashburnAB95

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2013
    We have a pa but no sub woofers. Bass dosn't sound bad through it but there is just no presence on the low end.
     
  13. ThisBass

    ThisBass

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2012
    Location:
    Germany
    If you buy off the rack,
    No
    [/QUOTE]
    In your case,
    No
    (otherwise you would not have ask this question)

    Sorry for rough words
     
  14. Joe Louvar

    Joe Louvar

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2011
    Location:
    Santa Rosa, CA USA
    Oh okay - well I've been in a lot of churches, and to be honest I think a 300 to 500 watt amp into a couple of 112 cabs like the G-K NEO112 would be perfect for any and all of your needs. And you're not going to want to much low bottom end - in some worship rooms it just turns into mud.
     
  15. Munjibunga

    Munjibunga Total Hyper-Elite Member Gold Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2000
    Location:
    Groom Lake, NV
    Disclosures:
    Independent Contractor to Bass San Diego
    Let's say you have a cab that's -10dB at 30 Hz. That should be fine because, as you mentioned, you're not hearing much of the fundamental down that low anyway. But at -10 dB, there's enough of it so you know it's there even though you're hearing more 60 Hz and higher overtones.
     
  16. WashburnAB95

    WashburnAB95

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2013
    I know there are many off the shelf solutions that would be adequate for me. However I am a DIYer by nature. I am trying to imagaine what my dream rig would be. Once I find out what is realistically possible I will find the means to make it happen.
     
  17. WashburnAB95

    WashburnAB95

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2013
    Once I get the question answered "how low should I go" I will be greatly aided when it comes time for choosing drivers/cab deisgns.
     
  18. ThisBass

    ThisBass

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2012
    Location:
    Germany
    ACME cab designs should be a good indication for DIY
     
  19. WashburnAB95

    WashburnAB95

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2013
    Some of their stuff looks good.
     
  20. Joe Louvar

    Joe Louvar

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2011
    Location:
    Santa Rosa, CA USA
    Oh Okay, drivers, cab tuning, bracing, etc.

    Ballpark guess - tune the cab down to about 40Hz.

    Have fun and good luck. :)

    Cheers,
    Joe
     
  21. Downunderwonder

    Downunderwonder

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2009
    Location:
    New Zealand
    You probably never heard strong 30hz. Only time I've heard it strong is on headphones. It's not hard to "visualise" the speaker performance required to move the whole room at that frequency via the air. If you're willing to entertain the 2nd harmonic check out BFM's righteous diy bass horns.
     

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