Koussevitzky fingering

Discussion in 'Orchestral Technique [DB]' started by Lbernardes, Dec 29, 2012.


  1. Lbernardes

    Lbernardes

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    Dec 20, 2012
    Hi everyone, i'm currently learning the Koussevitzky concerto and i'd like to know your opinions on fingering.
    I took Gary Karr's video as an example, but i cant quite see what he is actually doing

    Around 6:02 - 6:07, what fingering could this possibly be? I was using my third finger in some parts in order not to shift so much but it was pretty tiresome and i couldn't get confortable,so to speak...can you guys give me any hints please?


    Thanks! Lucas
  2. MartinBorgen

    MartinBorgen

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    Stockholm, Sweden, Europe
    Whatever fingering it is, it's not necessarily the one that works for you best, just because it worked for Gary Karr. ;)
  3. Lbernardes

    Lbernardes

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    Dec 20, 2012
    Oh sure ,i am aware of that. The video was just some sort of reference actually...i'm just very new to thumb position and bass in general to be honest haha
  4. Adam Attard

    Adam Attard

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    Cleveland, Ohio
    I'd strongly suggest expanding your horizons for examples of performances of this from just Gary Karr (Rinat Ibragimov's version comes to mind, among others.).

    As for that fingering, I've used 2 and 3 for the upper part of the double stops (not quite sure what else would work...), and any fingering combination you try, it always seems to feel uncomfortable at first. But regardless of what you see in any YouTube video, whatever feels comfortable to you over time is always the best option, as the previous poster said.
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  6. neilG

    neilG

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    Exercise that third finger, you're going to need it.
  7. Adam Attard

    Adam Attard

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    +1
    No pain, no gain.
  8. Lbernardes

    Lbernardes

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    Dec 20, 2012
    Yeah, I think the problem was the third finger indeed, it felt really difficult the transition from thumb to third finger at such speed and still pay attention to the bowings! Thanks for sharing your thoughts, i appreciate it.
  9. Les Fret

    Les Fret

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    Sep 9, 2009
    Yes, I like Gary Karr but that performance seems a little outdated. His fingerings always seem kind of odd to me.
    Maybe someone can explain to me what the philosophy of Gary Karr fingerings are?
  10. AClark

    AClark

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    Gary Karr definitely had his own style. He tried to imitate the human voice (open and clear) with his bass. Not everyone is advanced enough to pull that off without sounding obnoxious, so sometimes it's better to put the Gary Karr tapes down when trying to find a reference.

    But that doesn't mean we shouldn't take *anything* from him. I think he ultimately made us more brave when it comes to making the big shifts (like in the second section on koussevitzky). I cannot count how many times a bass player has said " I like the Gary Karr style" or "if Gary Karr was playing this..."
  11. Adam Attard

    Adam Attard

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    Gary Karr did a lot for advancing the bass as a solo instrument (founded ISB, was the first "bass soloist" of the modern era), but the style of playing he uses- certain fingering and shifting things he does are a little bit outdated- I'd like to see anyone try to play Koussevitsky with the same amount of vibrato for an audition or a competition as him and see how it turns out, I certainly won't.
    Those shifts should always have a dramatic feel, I don't think that really had anything to do with Gary Karr... No performer is going to make that big of a shift and not emphasize it.
  12. AClark

    AClark

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    I think the main aspect of what made him so great was his tone (and his technical abilities, of course). It seems that his fingerings were intended to help enhance his tone (notice how a lot of the time it looks like he is just sliding around on his 1st and 2nd finger), so unless you're trying to play it "Gary Karr style", it probably isn't the best reference. :)
  13. Lbernardes

    Lbernardes

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    Dec 20, 2012
    Well, just to clear things up...i didn't try to "copy" Gary or something like that, i just wanted to know some possibilities, i used his video cos it had the best angle and speed, stuff like that...Ibragimov's version's the most appealing to me (as usual!) but i can't see anything clearly either hehe! Anyway, thanks one more time everyone! I think i have identified the problem, gotta practice thumb position...third finger in particular
  14. MartinBorgen

    MartinBorgen

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    Agreed, Ibragimov really get the dramatic effect out of the concerto. Until I heard his, I thought it sounded meek.
  15. AClark

    AClark

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    There's nothing wrong with copying :) just make sure you do it right :p
  16. AClark

    AClark

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    Sorry if I sound snobbish. I'm not doing it on purpose. Im sure It'd sound a lot more positive if I were saying this in person. I promise I'm not a jerk :p
  17. Adam Attard

    Adam Attard

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    Never try to copy anyone interpretation wise anyhow- be yourself and all that jazz.

    Practice suggestion- do the double stops in blocks (first with the 2nd finger being the highest, then 3rd) and go back and forth between them, so that you get the shape your hand should be in before trying to actually play it.
  18. Tom Gale

    Tom Gale

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    May 16, 2009
    There are three basic techniques involved in modern playing. The standard 1,2,4, what I call the closed hand - the 1,2,3,4 which I called the "open hand" and the thumb positions both above and below the octave G. You do not just "use them" - they must be developed and the hand built up on all three techniques. That's why I wrote all my stuff. Then decide where is the musical phrase best served by which technique.
    Tom Gale
    Asodb.org. Or TBGale3
    @att.net
  19. Lbernardes

    Lbernardes

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    Dec 20, 2012
    I see...thank you for the suggestions! Well, i practiced a lot today and i felt the bowings are pretty intricate too in this passage....in this other video (also by gary karr...) you can see exactly what i mean. check teh semiquavers at around 5:18, that was tough!
  20. Les Fret

    Les Fret

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    Sep 9, 2009
    Just curious what fingering do you guys use for the part right after the double stops (so bar 5 and 6 counted from the first double stops)? Descending figure ED#D#E until big shift D# C.
  21. Les Fret

    Les Fret

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    Sep 9, 2009
    any suggestions for the above passage?

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