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Loss of sound/tone in a large room

Discussion in 'Live Sound [BG]' started by Spook_57, Apr 3, 2014.


  1. Spook_57

    Spook_57

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2006
    Location:
    South Wales
    When playing in a large room (pub or club) my bass speaker is positively booming in the 'stage' area but, about 5 yards out into the room, the sound and tone die off to a thin tone and poor volume level, which sounds awful. This happens with both my Roland Bass Cube 100 and Peavey TKO 115 combo - very different output and speaker size, but the same problem.

    Does anyone have experience with this problem... and a solution?
     
  2. BassCliff

    BassCliff

    Joined:
    May 17, 2012
    Location:
    So. Cal.
    Hi,

    Yes, you just need more horsepower and more speakers to push more air, or run direct into the PA so that you can be heard out front.


    Thank you for your indulgence,

    BassCliff
     
  3. Ender_rpm

    Ender_rpm

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2004
    Media:
    1
    Location:
    St. Louis MO
    What he said. For a live setting, those are comparatively tiny amplifiers to try and run a room. Triple the wattage or double the speaker area would be a good place to start
     
  4. RedMoses

    RedMoses Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2012
    Location:
    NYC
    +1, More POWA along with PA support, if your playing clubs that big you shoud NOT be using a 100 watt practice amp. Be sure your new Bass head (or a Pedal) has a DI out to you can give the engineer the option to DI, MIC or both.
     
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  6. tbz

    tbz Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2013
    Location:
    SoCal
    From personal experience I'd say a TKO 115 becomes inadequate as soon as you start playing places that have a cap of over about 20 or 30, and/or if your guitarist is using an amp over about 45 watts.

    You can still "make it work" for venues up until the 60 - 80 person limit, if you have a quiet guitarist and drummer, but your tone and projection will not be as good as it could be if you just had a 212, 210 or 410 with a decent head (or solid PA support.)

    I know I had to "V" the EQ pretty drastically to get any decent volume out of mine; even boosted in that manner the low end response wasn't really great. As a result I'd say that it set me back in terms of tone progression for a while.

    Simply put it's not a great sounding amp to begin with, so trying to force enough sound out of it to hear myself resulted in a somewhat poor tone.

    So, I'd politely suggest you move up to something more substantial, unless you want to make a habit of sounding bad...like I did :bassist:

    Also, you mention above "very different output and speaker size" with the TKO and the Bass Cube.....honestly there's not a drastic difference between a low quality single 15" and a single 12". Just checked specs on the newer TKO 115 and it looks like they're running at 150 watts RMS now, Roland Cube runs at 100 watts RMS. You need to double wattage for a 3db increase in volume IIRC so, that additional 50 watts, into a slightly larger speaker, just isn't going to count for much.
     
  7. Spook_57

    Spook_57

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2006
    Location:
    South Wales
    Thanks for the replies. I only use the 100 watt Roland (with a 10" speaker) for very small venues and practice. The TKO is 200 watts, the Tour, kickback style and, close up, is very booming but, as I said, just a few yards out into the room the sound dies off to nothing.
     
  8. jking138

    jking138

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2013
    Maybe cutting the 40hz area a little, the low-low end takes a lot more power to project and doesn't project well at distance. EQing to the room in this way may help but adding another 1x15 cab will help if there is no PA support.
     
  9. Joe Louvar

    Joe Louvar

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2011
    Location:
    Santa Rosa, CA USA
    Sweet, nice and compact - I like that. Anyway, since your rig is plenty loud enough for you on stage, just get a good DI box (IE: Countryman 85, Radial J48) and let the PA cover the house volume.
     
  10. Downunderwonder

    Downunderwonder

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2009
    Location:
    New Zealand
    I expect you have boundary reflection issues. Your amp goes against a wall and either in the corner or a good 8ft from the corner. Never a few ft from walls/corner.
     
  11. Spook_57

    Spook_57

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2006
    Location:
    South Wales
    Thanks. I'll try a few things out at rehearsal tonight.
     
  12. rtslinger

    rtslinger

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2006
    Location:
    Belleville,New Jersey USA
    Roll off the bass and bring up the mids should help
     
  13. Spook_57

    Spook_57

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2006
    Location:
    South Wales
    So, I tried a couple of the suggestions last night, moved the amp forwards to the frontline and took some of the low end off the EQ. We rehearse on a very small stage in a club function room, which is quite cramped, so I can't get it right away from the walls, but on the front edge of the stage, and I stood beside/behind it. The sound/tone carried much better and much more consistently in that position. A few more tweaks and we could be onto a winner here. Thanks for all your advice. :cool:
     

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