More cab or better EQing?

Discussion in 'Amps [BG]' started by over_the_moon, Sep 25, 2013.


  1. over_the_moon

    over_the_moon

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2010
    I have a Genz ShuttleMax 12.0 with an Uber 2x10 8-ohm cabinet. With this cabinet, the amp is capable of putting out 300 watts. At home, this setup sounds fantastic. At our practice space (an office conference room), I can't seem to get any volume or low-end out the rig. Even with nobody else playing, the overall volume seems low and the tone is all mid and high-end. It's like the room sucks up all of my sound. When the rest of the band plays, I can only hear the very top-end.

    I've tried pegging the master volume, channel volume, pushing the gain until the input overload flickers, pegging the bass on the EQ and dialing down the treble and mids, but it doesn't seem to work.

    I'd love to achieve the tone I get in my basement at the practice space. I think the obvious answer is to pick up another cabinet, but that's expensive. The thing that makes that less obvious is that we have a second bass player in the band with a 150 watt Fender Rumble with a 15" driver and he can deliver some serious bottom end in the room with it.

    So is there some amp setting or EQ magic that you can recommend or is the answer to suck it up and add speakers?

    That damn Fender Rumble...
     
  2. Floyd Eye

    Floyd Eye Banned

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    Feb 21, 2010
    Location:
    St. Louis
    Well don't buy a Fender Rumble for God sakes.

    The head you have is a beast. Suck it up and get a big ass cabinet. Don't cheap out here either. I like a fridge, many guys like other stuff.
     
  3. NYCbassist

    NYCbassist Supporting Member

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    Mar 10, 2007
    Location:
    Mount Airy, North Carolina
    I would recommend a second 8 Ohm Cabinet. 300 watts is more than enough to keep up to even a loud drummer. Yes EQ will help too but You amp is not putting out its full potential with the one 8 ohm Speaker cab.
     
  4. B-string

    B-string Gold Supporting Member

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    Nov 21, 2008
    Location:
    Lake Havasu City, Az USA
    Have you made sure out front a few feet or to the side out a few to make sure you are not pounding everyone? Place the cab in a different location? Room acoustics can really play some nasty tricks on you.
     
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  6. over_the_moon

    over_the_moon

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2010
    Yeah, I have. It is definitely louder about 20 feet out and bassier if you stand off to the side, but not enough to make a huge difference. We record our practices with a little handheld Tascam and all you hear of me is the higher frequencies.
     
  7. over_the_moon

    over_the_moon

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2010
    I like the way you think, man. That's a versatile amp and my plan has always been to scale up the cabinets as needed. I think it's time.

    But what is it about that Fender Rumble that makes it so different?
     
  8. smeet

    smeet Gold Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2006
    Location:
    Woodland Hills, CA
    I think some eq changes should get you at least part of the way there, and would serve you well even if you get more/bigger cabinets. The Genz is a very clean amp, probably a bit shy in the bass end when set "flat".

    The Rumble is probably a much more low-mid-focused amp, especially with the 15" cabinet. It's also not as clean as the Genz. That will help it cut through more.

    First of all: turn the mid scoop off. All the way off. Leave it off.
    Then, turn the LF boost to 10:00 or 12:00. This control is interesting, as it's NOT really a bass boost. Instead it extends the bass lower, and should give your sound some extra body.
    Then, think about boosting your low mids a bit, somewhere between 200Hz and 500Hz should be about right. Try the low mids with the frequency knob around 9:00 as a starting point.

    Lastly, you might want to use the tube channel, and push the preamp a little. Sometimes the "hair" from the overdrive will help you cut through a bit. On my SM9.2, the FET channel has more deep bass but a bit less mids, but your amp might be different.

    Another idea is to borrow the Rumble for a couple of days, and spend some time figuring out how to imitate the Rumble sound with the ShuttleMax EQ. Then, you at least have a starting point for a cut-through-the-mix sound.
     
  9. over_the_moon

    over_the_moon

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    Jan 19, 2010
    Ah, OK. I'll try some of those settings. Thanks!
     
  10. Floyd Eye

    Floyd Eye Banned

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    Well, you know, some guys like them I guess. The ones I played all sucked ( obviously this is just MY opinion). Nevertheless, going from the head you have to a rumble, ANY rumble, is a step backwards.
     
  11. Floyd Eye

    Floyd Eye Banned

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    Also Smeet's advice is dead on. Listen to him.
     
  12. over_the_moon

    over_the_moon

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    Jan 19, 2010
    Oh, I'm not considering buying a Rumble. I'm just bummed that my expensive Genz rig (with more power output and more speaker area) is getting its ass kicked by it and I'm wondering how to fix that. The Rumble definitely has zero definition. But for the rock covers we're doing, it really sounds solid.
     
  13. smeet

    smeet Gold Supporting Member

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    The Fender is strongly voiced for a decent rock sound, with minimal eq power if you want to deviate from that sound. The Genz on the other hand has a very flat and neutral sound, with a really powerful set of eq controls. With some experimentation, you should be able to mimic almost any other amp. I had pretty good success imitating my SVT 7Pro with it.

    Also, remember that you have two seperate channels, each with its own set of dual semi-parametric mids. If you really want to get crazy, you can turn on the channel mixing and have four bands of mid eq going at once.
     
  14. Downunderwonder

    Downunderwonder

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    New Zealand
    Also mind your cab position relative to walls. Backed up to the wall and at least 8ft from corner, if not in the corner. Using the corner makes for big increase in lows, so much you can eq less.
     
  15. will33

    will33

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    Better eq'ing and/or more speakers.

    You've got a giant amp slapping around a 210 for Gods sake, man.

    The problem ain't the amp.


    Also +1 to trying both different rig positions and different listening positions around the room. Don't be afraid to cut a little where you think your meat is in order to clear up the rest.
     
  16. electracoyote

    electracoyote

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    Location:
    Purple Mountain Majesties
    Here's your answer. And there is a possibility that with a second cab it will throw the amp into 4-ohm mode giving you more speaker and more watts (around 600 watts on this model?). I'm guessing, haven't checked the specs.

    I have NEVER been able to keep up with even a moderately loud drummer with only one 2X10 cab no matter how cleverly I tried to EQ it. And when the room grows, the bottom drops out.

    And I think it's safe to say that 4X10 will give you the cone surface to deliver approximately the same bottom end of a good 1X15, if not more.
     
  17. Downunderwonder

    Downunderwonder

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    A premium 2x10 getting it's ass handed to it by a budget 150w combo isn't a lack of firepower.
     
  18. over_the_moon

    over_the_moon

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    Jan 19, 2010
    I ended up picking up a 4ohm Uber 410. With just the 410, I get 600 watts out of the ShuttleMax 12 and that was plenty of power for last night's practice and I had plenty of definition. I played around with the EQ settings per Smeet's recommendations and I was really able to dial in some great sounds that fit in well with the rest of the band.

    I still have the 2x10, so I have the flexibility of running 300, 600, or 900 watts depending on which cab(s) I hook up. Running both cabs sounds awesome in the basement, even at low volumes. Plenty of definition and clarity and a ton of low-end when I want it.

    Thanks for all of the help, guys!
     
  19. Artobass

    Artobass

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    Jan 21, 2012
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    Nashville, TN
    Great decision, the Uber 410 is an excellent cab. I run a Streamliner 900 with an Uber 410 and couldn't be happier. Happy to see you have solved your problem.
     
  20. Pokerdweebz

    Pokerdweebz Supporting Member

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    Oct 26, 2012
    Location:
    Lititz, PA
    I don't know that particular amp, but if it does not go down to a 2 ohm load do NOT use the 210 and 410 together. If it does go down to 2 ohms ignore what I said.
     
  21. over_the_moon

    over_the_moon

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2010
    The ShuttleMax 12.0 is actually two 600-watt amplifiers (4-ohm minimum) in one box. So I run one cabinet on each "side" and it's safe. Thanks for the heads-up, though!
     

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