New idea or?

Discussion in 'Pickups & Electronics [BG]' started by suraci, Jan 8, 2014.


  1. suraci

    suraci

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    I play mostly jazz lately but on an old pre cbs fender jazz

    When practicing, often without any amp, I notice the tone I get is very different from a pick up type sound, that we all love ( who doesn't like a Pre cbs Fender tone ) BUT that tone does not resemble the un-amplified tone of just the bass with my ear naturally position inches from the bass. It is more woody.. I cannot explain it. I play fairly hard too, which brings out more of whatever tone is present in this bass

    What methods, or pick ups or microphone added to my PU can I use to capture some of the natural sound of my bass?
    I really like this woody tone, and if I could add it to the existing tone with a splitter ot A B box, that would be so cool !
     
  2. Marcury

    Marcury High and Low Supporting Member

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  3. suraci

    suraci

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    Love that Dan Akroydism. a piezo WHERE? Any way to have it not knock the value of my bass to zero- without wood gouging ( at $1000 per gouge -) ) ? I have a Neumann I wish there was a way to put that great mic near the body with a clamp. Crazy, but I don't care about looks just sound!
     
  4. uOpt

    uOpt Supporting Member

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    I would try the upper horn if that's a P, J or Stingray. You probably need to EQ out some bass if you do that but you need to EQ anyway.
     
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  6. suraci

    suraci

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    I am sorry, "upper horn"? And what kind of eq? You mean cut bass out of miced source, right?
     
  7. line6man

    line6man

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    People usually choose piezo saddles for this application. If you're worried about resale value, you shouldn't be modding to begin with. Just stick to microphones.

    You might consider getting a bass that has piezo saddles standard from the factory.
     
  8. suraci

    suraci

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    Thank you guys... so piezos involve gouging wood, without doubt... no work around?
    And how can a mic get close enough?
     
  9. line6man

    line6man

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    Not really. Just drilling a channel for the wires from the bridge.
     
  10. uOpt

    uOpt Supporting Member

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    I would put a piezo under the strap button on the upper horn. Be careful about hanging it while you are testing it, though.

    The piezo under bridge or in a saddle thing sounds like a good idea to change the amplified sound, though.
     
  11. suraci

    suraci

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    Guys what is a horn? That part of the body of the bass, maybe?
     
  12. jefkritz

    jefkritz

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    If you like the sound you hear with your ear, don't use a piezo. Those amplify vibrations of solids. You want a microphone that is positioned about where you like your ear to be. Depending on your stage volume and setup, this may or may not be feasible.

    I can't help too much with the 'how' aspect, aside from recommending this wonderful book on DIY audio hacking: handmade electronic music by nic collins. i found a free pdf a few years ago, not sure if the online version still exists... there are sections on how to build microphones, how to build simple passive mixers, and many other fun things, all for absurdly low parts costs.
     
  13. Wagz

    Wagz

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    You can get a piezo bridge and route the wire alongside the ground wire into the control cavity.

    If I were you and I really wanted that woody, thumpy tone, I'd do like this:

    Get a direct replacement piezo bridge, run the piezo wire into the control cavity alongside the bridge ground wire. And then have the output jack wired for stereo (with one channel being your existing pickups, the other being the piezo).

    Your bass would look completely "stock" and you don't have to do any additional routing or make any holes. I'd run a stereo instrument cable from the bass with the piezo output going through a piezo buffer. You can use a two-channel head or per-amp to blend your piezo output with your standard magnetic pickups.

    I've done this to a few basses over the years and it works surprisingly well.
     
  14. suraci

    suraci

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    jefkritz I own two Neumann's both require phantom power. One designed for live apps the other for studio... But we only pass this way once... so I don't care how it looks, or how odd it seems.. the sound of both my elec bass AND my plywood bass sound rteally cool for jazz right outside the strings down by the body. There has to be a way of clamping on to body.
    Thanks
     
  15. line6man

    line6man

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    The buffering needs to come before the output jack of the bass. Running an unbuffered signal through capacitive instrument cable is going to cause problems, because of the signal impedance. Capacitance must be kept to a minimum to avoid losses.
     
  16. Roy Vogt

    Roy Vogt Supporting Member

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    I have a fretless German 6 string that has a piezo in the body cavity and it works pretty well. What about mounting the piezo in the body cavity (maybe under the control plate) against the wood and then running it into a buffer amp and mixing it with the magnetic p/ups? That's what I do with the fretless 6 and it sounds great.
    Beware, if this is a pristine pre CBS Jazz Bass you will want to do this with different electronics, pots, etc. and a different control plate as well. I would never advise anybody to "improve" a pristine pre CBS Fender by hacking it up (unless it's already been done). You can easily make a $12,000 bass worth $5,000. Think of the killer bass with piezos you can have made for you with 7K!
     
  17. Stumbo

    Stumbo Wherever you go, there you are.

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    What type of amp/cab are you using? What are your settings?

    Possibly using an fdeck HPF/pre in your signal chain might tighten up the low end as has been reported by other users and allow more of your bass' "woodyness" to come through.

    Also, maybe a Audiokenisis cab would get more of the tone you're looking for.
     
  18. suraci

    suraci

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    I don't think cab and amp matter, believe it or not. The sound without amp, is soooo different.
    I decided on a neo 12 Genz with a MArkBass F500 not a bad combo amp. but I have tried my SVT head into 4x10 ampeg ... it doesn't matter.. unamplified is a whole other animal.


    and to the $7000 bass guitar idea, no thanks,, been there done that.. no replacing this pre CBS jazz -)
     
  19. line6man

    line6man

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    Personally, I wouldn't do anything to a pre-CBS Jazz bass, even if it were a modification for the better. But mic'ing an electric bass is going to be tough in a live setting. As uOpt suggested, try a piezo element on the horn. I have heard of people getting good results with $3 piezos from RadioShack. It would be inexpensive to experiment, so the worst case scenario would be having to skip your Latte the day you go back to the drawing board.
     
  20. Stumbo

    Stumbo Wherever you go, there you are.

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    Possibly a few TBr's would disagree. Trying a full range cab with a high end amp/pre-amp may change what you hear.

    Please post your results based on whatever you try! :)

    It will be cool to hear some audio of your experiments.:)
     
  21. Roy Vogt

    Roy Vogt Supporting Member

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    Just don't hack it up in pursuit of the Magic Tone, please, please, please! It would be like melting down a 15th Century Gold Communion Chalice and making neck chains out of it! :eek:
    Whatever modifications you do, keep the original parts and make sure it's reversible if it's mint-there's a good fellow! :)
     

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