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Not another guitarist half stack rant thread!

Discussion in 'Band Management [BG]' started by Marley's Ghost, Dec 16, 2013.

  1. Marley's Ghost

    Marley's Ghost Supporting Member

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    I know the obvious move is to quit, but I really like the singer and drummer and the guitarists do play well. So how do I convince these guys to cut the bass eq and volume levels? It was right out of the guitard playbook when one guy told me with a straight face that he needed the half stack to get "his tone". :rollno: and he was acutally boosting the low end. :eek:
  2. Nashrakh

    Nashrakh

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    One of the handiest tricks is pretending to play with your volume off. If they don't notice anything, slap a fish in their face.
  3. Joe Louvar

    Joe Louvar

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    put down your bass, put your earplugs in, and beat a big loud cowbell into his ear
  4. WalterBush

    WalterBush

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    You won't convince them. Maybe a live recording from the board, where they are inaudible because their stage volume was too loud. Or maybe a soundguy who stalks up and unplugs their cab because they refuse to turn down. Or maybe their backs will get tired of hauling anything larger than a 112, 22 watt combo. Maybe they'll decide that power tube distortion is where it's at, and that cranking their 50 or 100w head gets them kicked out of clubs so they switch to the aforementioned 112 22 watt combo.

    Any one of those things might convince them, but my experience is that the bass player never will. Your specific knowledge of how sound works and your desire for good FOH sound will never, ever trump the image imprinted on them from youth of Ace Frehley standing in front of a Marshall full stack; in their minds, they've already compromised and cut their rig in half for the band.
  5. Marley's Ghost

    Marley's Ghost Supporting Member

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    We are on our fifth rehearsal. Gigs will start to roll in around Feb-Mar. I'm trying to nip this in the bud.
  6. Dave Curran

    Dave Curran Lilduke Supporting Member

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    Get a big power sponge, paint it really funky colors, and name it the most vulgar thing you can think of. Give it to him and convince him it's a $20,000 prototype "tone restorer" that will give him even more clarity of his "tone"!!!
  7. sowilson

    sowilson

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    4 SVT rigs (4 heads, 4 8x10 cabs), leather, JD, earplugs, and a P-bass with a heavy pick. Crank up all the way and blast. Stacks loose
  8. two fingers

    two fingers Loud Mouth Know It All Blowhard Gold Supporting Member

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    Honestly. PRETEND to be playing with your volume turned all the way down. Better yet, unplug your instrument cable from the amp. Just jump around like you are playing your butt off! When the song is over, inform then that you weren't turned up or even plugged in. The fact that they didn't notice (and they won't) says TWO things. 1) The obvious. They are way too loud. 2) (And even MORE important in my view) They are not tuned in to the rest of the band AT ALL. You could be playing a different song in a different key and they wouldn't even KNOW it. That is some self-absorbed ego driven BS. Can any of us as bass players even IMAGINE playing a show without being able to hear a SINGLE THING that another band member was doing? That would be SENSELESS. But not (some) guitar players. They are perfectly content only being able to hear themselves and the drums. And even the drums are only to keep time. If they didn't HAVE to have the drums they would be fine only hearing THEMSELVES. And, again, that is MORE than just a volume issue. That is an EGO issue. They aren't part of a band. As far as they are concerned, the rest pf you losers are only there to make them look better.

    So (catches breath) yeah. Play a song with your volume turned off and then simply tell them at the end of the song. Their reaction will tell you everything you need to know. If they don't CARE that they couldn't hear you...... if they think it is YOUR problem..... then you are not in a band to begin with. It's not a band. Period. No negotiations or explanations. It is NOT a band.

    Edit to add: Or the other alternative is to go out and rent a humongous rig. Like insane big. When it is too loud (and it will be too loud if you do it right) simply tell them to crank down a little or you will BUY that rig and bring to every single rehearsal. We can all go up or all go down.
  9. DwaynieAD

    DwaynieAD

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    and if he showed up with a combo you'd be complaining about that... its a half stack.. its pretty much the standard. go back to your basement maybe?
  10. Joe Louvar

    Joe Louvar

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    1) Put your earplugs in and turn your bass amp down.

    2) Make him stand in front of his speaker cabinet and raise or tilt his speaker cabinet so that its pointed directly at his head, and if he moves away from it even a little, stop playing and make him move back to where his speaker cabinet is pointed directly at his head again.
  11. ChrisB2

    ChrisB2 Bass... in your fass Supporting Member

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    If talking to them doesn't/hasn't worked, you're pretty much left with getting a large enough rig to get in the mix, or quitting.

    I would advise another conversation. If that fails, choose an option above.

    I literally went the large rig route. It works. 2000 or so watts and an 810. Yeah, it works to get you in the game. And you know what else it does? It makes your guitarist(s) start thinking about volume since all of a sudden they hear--

    BASS

    After a year or so they might turn down. Mine did. Plus those rigs are great for outdoor shows.
  12. bassresistance

    bassresistance

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    Talk to them about it. Ask them to try it out for a few songs and see how it goes. Tell them the mix sounds muddy to you, then spend some time together tweaking amp settings until you get a mix everyone is happy with.
  13. marko138

    marko138

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    Talk to them? What an idea!
  14. Marley's Ghost

    Marley's Ghost Supporting Member

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    I did try this at last rehearsal. The main offender shot me a surprised look and turned the bass dial from 8 to 7. :rolleyes:

    I guess I will have to give my "sonic space" pitch later this week. :bag: Wish me luck.
  15. The_Janitor

    The_Janitor

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    +1 on the big rig. Power can be had quite cheaply these days.

    Second: I'd wager big bucks that the guitarist is also scooping out mids. So crank yours.

    Works for me in my band, guitarist and I are about equal in volume (LOUD, but not stupid loud, maintaining good tone), he likes the mid scoop switch on his amp. So I dime the mids on the LH1000 (which is just not-cutting the mids), use the mid boost on my fuzz pedal, and if that's not enough I can push more mids with the preamp on the ATK.

    Works out fine for everyone, but especially me.
  16. Joe Louvar

    Joe Louvar

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    Bigger or smaller - and if you go bigger, fill the room with bass cabs and power so you literally pound his brains out of his skull - use wireless and stand outside of the room so you don't go deaf. :D
  17. Gaolee

    Gaolee The Fat Violin Supporting Member

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    Play a completely different song and see if they notice. Or go for the Armageddon rig, as has been mentioned. Doing both at the same time is probably a bad idea.
  18. Thisguy

    Thisguy

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    Many moons ago I was playing with an extremely talented guitar player that ran a half stack. Believe it was a Peavey 5150 head. Anyway. He was just brutally loud during practices... Dude was also a super nice guy, so when I asked if he could turn down during practice, I was surprised when he just flatly said no. I was standing there trying to count to ten to keep my temper in check. He just sets his guitar down walked to his bag-o-crap and walks back with a black box thing I had never seen before and another speaker cable and puts it in line fires up the amp again and messes with the box for a bit and he's getting his same tone, with half the volume.

    That's when I learned of the power soak. There should be more of those in guitar players with those things. :)
  19. Frank Tuesday

    Frank Tuesday Supporting Member

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    This isn't everyone's type of music, but have them listen to the isolated guitar tracks of Welcome to the Jungle. The guitar has very little low end, but in the context of the band, it sounds great. If you don't like GnR, just search for isolated guitar tracks on youtube and find examples that have a similar sound to your band and don't have a lot of low end.
  20. Slough Feg Bass

    Slough Feg Bass

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    I solved this by using a much louder rig, and annihilating their sounds by blasting them out. They were like, "dude, you are really loud tonight, can you turn down ?"
    So I rolled back 1 notch on the power amp, and they were still complaining, and I told them, "dude, I already turned down, see?"
    I overwhelmed them with power, and finally they got the message and started to suggest we practice at a lower volume. And that is when I turned down.

    It also helps that I have the custom earplugs and used the strongest filter I could get my hands on.

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