Not another Tube vs SS thread...

Discussion in 'Amps [BG]' started by QviBBe, Jan 8, 2014.


  1. QviBBe

    QviBBe

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    Or is it? Yes and No.

    Im currently looking for YOUR expert advice.

    For the moment my setup is pretty simple. Im using one Ampeg svt 7 pro and my love, also known as Ampeg 810e. I play in one of them punk/rock/metall/pop bands, u know. The basses i use is a Fender American Hoghway one and a mark hoppus jazz things. To this mental institution i like to use a Boss dist pedal just for the heck of it.

    The problem i have is the choice of tube vs ss amps and yes i have read most of the threads here regarding this matter, althou they all seem to end up in a war of who knows more but that is probably the meaning of internet.

    The thing is that im only working in the studio at the moment and live situations is but a line in the horizon couse i live in a Swedish society with 300 peeps and nobody likes me. As mentioned Before im currently having a brain battle if it's Worth the 2000$+ to change from a ampeg 7 pro to a more tube based amp like and Ampeg -vr or CL, perhaps even a v4b. The question that im trying to ask is..Will it really matter once in the mix? Will it really change the quality of the Music and will that Tube grit that i've Heard so much about really cut through and change the way ppl Think about Life itself? I know this is a choice i have to make on my own but most of you guys have been around and probably made alot of mistakes and Life will never see progress unless we learn from eachother!

    I love the sound of them old blink 182 records and sum 41 aswell, they all use ampeg CL most of the time in the studio and sometimes i listen to Korn and/or bullet for my valentine and they mostly use SS amp and i just can't hear that much diffrence while it's "in the mix". And yes ofc i can hear it when it's only the bass playing, but that's not way to common as most of you guys know.

    Have any one of you guys had any experience with this "dilemma" and what choice did you make and why? Is the smarter choice to go for a less powerfull amp like the v4b and just hope that the few places i acctually will play in live have a sweet PA system?

    I apologize in advance for bad English and a lack of making a Point. I hope you understand what im asking for here.
    My main task is vocals but i'm also really in to bass playing/sound.
     
  2. Selta

    Selta

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    If you can't hear it, you can't hear it. No big deal. Stick with what you have.
    I'd say at least see if you can rent a VR or CL and see if you can hear a mix in your band(s) though. If you still can't pick out a difference, then I think the path is obvious.
     
  3. Codger

    Codger Supporting Member

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    IMO you should play whatever setup you like, whose sound you like. You will play better as a result. Whether the audience can hear the difference in the chosen gear is a question. They will however hear your better performance.

    Play through whatever you think sounds better and the audience will enjoy an improved performance.
     
  4. Warwick Qc418

    Warwick Qc418 Supporting Member

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    In the mix, you have to pay attention to notice the difference. Most likely, other people will like the mix more without knowing why.
     
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  6. Major Softie

    Major Softie

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    Trust no one.


    .....except Selta, because his suggestion is to rent a tube amp and see for yourself.

    Do that, and trust yourself.
     
  7. TC.65

    TC.65

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    Play whatever amp you like the best. The audience is not going to notice that as much as if the band sounds good as a whole. The difference is if YOU really like the tone you get you will play better. This is how it seems to work for me.
     
  8. DogBone

    DogBone

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    ^ Okay, that sentence should be required reading for everyone in Talkbass Amps.


    That sentence incidentally expresses EXACTLY where I am myself right now.

    I have plenty of solid state hardware, but if tubes inspire me to play better then yes they would be worth it, that's why I'm considering putting some glass in my signal chain as well.
     
  9. Needenaneden

    Needenaneden

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    Everybody should try a tube amp once in their life. I own both tube and SS and enjoy both but they are different. I have an Eden E300t head and a current production Amped SVT-810e. The pair combined just breathes and comes alive that I have never found a a SS to do. With a P bass there is nothing better. I surprised myself when I bought the Eden over the Ampeg CL head. The CL was awesome too but the Eden was just it for me. I always get compliments when people get to hear that set up. I do enjoy taking my Hartke Lh-500 out to play too, but not quite as much as the Eden. The Hartke is lighter though!
     
  10. will33

    will33

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    The answer is obviously tubes....so.....what was the question?
     
  11. JimmyM

    JimmyM Supporting Member

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    7 Pro's a killer amp that has a lot of the qualities of the sound of an SVT, albeit without that tube sound that must be experienced to fully understand. And there is a reason some of your favorite bass players use one. But at the end of the day, what matters is HOW you play. I still sound like me whether I'm using my SVT, V4B, Micro VR or even my BA110 practice amp. Or any other amp for that matter. But there is something so grand about playing through an all-tube Ampeg that just can't be denied. Will you be fine using your 7 Pro? Most certainly. Will you notice a difference between the 7 Pro and an all-tube Ampeg? Most certainly.

    Will your listeners? Audiences care mainly that you give a good performance and don't care what you use to deliver it, so in a way, they don't care. But that's a lame attitude to adopt because it leads to not taking pride in your performance. Next thing you know, you use it as an excuse to play badly or without enthusiasm, and audiences can definitely tell when you suck. Play to the smartest people in your audiences and you will have smart audiences. Play to the level of the dumbest and most drunk people in your audience, and your audience will be nothing but dumb drunks ;) That doesn't mean you have to get an SVT to show the audience you care...just don't use "the audience doesn't care" mantra an excuse to not take pride in what you're doing. Audiences are way more sophisticated than a lot of musicians would like to think.
     
  12. LouieLouie16

    LouieLouie16

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    Rent a tube and record both, pick the one that sounds best for the song. That's what I did on my bands first ep. I don't have a link to the song itself but if you go to www.wakeupparadise.com and listen to "take it hard, take it easy" I recorded with an ampeg b15. The reason I'm saying this song is cuz it starts with the almighty bass(as it should).

    The song "hits the ground" was recorded with a SS ampeg that I cannot remember the name of. The rest was all direct in.

    You might hear a difference, you might not but I was in your situation.
     
  13. QviBBe

    QviBBe

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    Thank you all for the great answers, i have some follow up questions for you guys, some might have missunderstood that live is not relevant since it's all studio, still, would u recomend the vr before the Cl? If so, why? Will i lack volume comparing to my now 1000w ss amp? I can hear the diffrence in the mix aswell but cant understand why, the ss sound kinda dull/flat. This is what im trying to avoid
     
  14. JimmyM

    JimmyM Supporting Member

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    I assume people will be listening to your recordings...they are your audience ;)

    Will you lack volume? An SVT has plenty of volume, enough to make me nauseous in an 810e when cranking, but the 7 Pro will likely be able to go a little louder. In the studio it doesn't matter, though.

    VR vs CL? Some like the VR better and I used to as well, but once I was told that cranking the master all the way up and using gain for volume would result in the CL sounding like a VR, I have no problem with either now, and when it came time for me to get a new SVT because my 69 SVT was getting a little senile and rickety, I got a Heritage CL and I'm quite happy with it.
     
  15. VanillaThundah

    VanillaThundah VERY enthusiastic walks... Supporting Member

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    The band mix is a good thing to compare it to, but in a professional recording there is SOOOO much else that gets done to tailor somebody's sound for the track that you can't really use it as a decent comparison. Some things are going to come through live and be totally indiscernible on a recording, depending on how the mixing is done. Use your ears and ask others which they like better. They may not like loading it up, but I rarely hear stories where bandmates say that an Ampeg SVT + 810 sounds bad, maybe too loud sometimes, but rarely bad tone. I've also had the same experience with my GK amp.
     
  16. Roland GR 88

    Roland GR 88 Supporting Member

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    [/Quote] Audiences care mainly that you give a good performance and don't care what you use to deliver it, so in a way, they don't care. But that's a lame attitude to adopt because it leads to not taking pride in your performance. Next thing you know, you use it as an excuse to play badly or without enthusiasm, and audiences can definitely tell when you suck. Play to the smartest people in your audiences and you will have smart audiences. Play to the level of the dumbest and most drunk people in your audience, and your audience will be nothing but dumb drunks ;) That doesn't mean you have to get an SVT to show the audience you care...just don't use "the audience doesn't care" mantra an excuse to not take pride in what you're doing. Audiences are way more sophisticated than a lot of musicians would like to think.[/QUOTE]

    This should be required reading to be a TalkBass member.
    Thank you JimmyM
     
  17. Jefff

    Jefff Supporting Member

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    The audieance may not know why they like it more, but subliminaly everyone appreciates a better sound.

    It's up to you to decide what a better sound means.

    Also, I think we all play better if we think we sound better.
     
  18. Angel Switch

    Angel Switch

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    It's completely a subconcious thing. I also serve vocals as well as bass, and crowds don't notice that we have a bass player, but they sure as hell would notice if we didn't. They appreciate it without noticing it or being truly aware of it. Same thing with your tone. 90% of them aren't going to notice if you have a truly great bass tone, but they will appreciate it and the mix more if it's there. Anyone who comments on my bass tone after a show has been working in the industry for years, so they were most likely listening for it. Most of the time, that won't be the case.
     
  19. Angel Switch

    Angel Switch

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    +10000 to this last bit. I just upgraded my pups and made a couple small adjustments on my Jazz. Sounds a trillion times better and I'm playing the best I've ever played.
     
  20. Bassmec

    Bassmec

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    Sad you can't get over here for a rehearsal in this rehearsal studio
    where Swedish drummer Adrian Earlandsson has done a lot of work, when he was in Cradle of Filth.
    This is tube bass heaven! we used to have a Trace Elliot V8 + 8 X 10
    Now we break all the rulz with an Eden 8 X 10 and an Ampeg 2 X 15
    with a Simms Watts AP200 super driving the Eden and a Hiwatt DR 201 clone driving the old Ampeg Altec 15" drivers.
    We have an Ampeg SVT IIP pre amp driving both heads via a Lehle Dual
    splitter so very good signal to noise ratio for the studio, with no fan cooling!.:hyper::bassist:
    PS My family came from Scandinavia to live in England, but that was around 720AD, so it probably wasn't to buy a Hiwatt.:D
    [​IMG]
     
  21. Major Softie

    Major Softie

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    Because Hiwatt was more popular before that?
     

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