Opinion - Pino Signature or a Refin 64

Discussion in 'Basses [BG]' started by Kmrumedy, Dec 3, 2013.


  1. Kmrumedy

    Kmrumedy

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    So today I was supposed to close a deal on a refin 61 Pbass. I sold a good "Keeper" to fund it. Had a fellow member check it for me it and turns out the body most likely isn't the original. So deal is off.

    Leaving me with my keeper gone and me in FULL buy mode! I am sure many of you experience this.

    So while the cash is here I looked at the classifieds and found two similarly priced PBasses decades apart in vintage but interesting to me.

    The PBass is for a video project later in 2014. It will be my first pBass. My other basses are a vintage Jazz and a Ken Smith. Music will be 60-70 finger funk.

    I have read the reviews on the Pino. I guess the advantage is the Pino is very consistent and I know I will be getting a good bass. The early 60's are hit and miss. However, this one was put together by a highly skilled luthier.

    I am not looking for someone to decide for me but I am interested on what others would choose and why?

    Also if anyone has a pre-CBS refin or player for sale let me know.

    Here are the links to the sales. Thanks.

    Pino
    http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f126/...-signature-precision-bass-fiesta-red-1026370/

    refin 64
    http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f126/refin-1964-fender-precision-bass-super-pro-restoration-1018295/
  2. Stone Soup

    Stone Soup

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2012
    I'd buy the '64 refin. I like the look of it much more than the Pino. The neck mojo alone is awesome. It's put together by a pretty reputable guy. It's surely a winner.
  3. Kmrumedy

    Kmrumedy

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    For those checking out the thread and know vintage PBasses - can you look at the picture of the pickups on the 64. I thought the bottom plates were always black in this period? Am I wrong?
  4. thisSNsucks

    thisSNsucks Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2004
    Location:
    Yonkers, NY
    IMO the '64 will always be worth more $ than a Pino, even though the Pino basses are pretty damn killer.

    Anyway on the topic of pickup bobbins, I'm fairly sure that the pickup bobbins were black on Fender pickups up until March of 64 when they went to the gray material.

    The neck stamp on that '64 shows its from around June, so those pickups look correct for that era.
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  6. smcd

    smcd Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2009
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Both look very nice. The Pino bass is a bit on the high side, price wise. I've never seen a FCShop bass that wasn't excellent, but $3,100 is steep for a P-bass. The restored '64 on the other hand... there's just too many problems with that bass. The seller vaguely mentions "sins, extra holes", but that bass was seriously damaged at one time. Note where the headstock was broken. Who knows what lies under that nice paint job. All those issues add up to a hard sell, despite the fact that it was restored by someone who appears to know what they were doing. Consider that for another $1,000 you could find an original, undamaged 60's Precision, and it makes that bass less appealing. That bass is a good example of why restoring a damaged vintage instrument isn't always a good idea.
  7. KJung

    KJung Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2005
    Location:
    Wisconsin and Upper Michigan
    If Fender made a non-reliced Pino for $500 less (or whatever the fake aging costs), I would own one today.

    Simply stunning P Bass, and as good as any of the older Fender's I've played. If you can deal with the relic, and don't mind the salmon color or whatever (I like that myself), hard to go wrong, and should be 'no surprises'. I assume most dealers like Sweetwater or whatever, would have a short trial/return period just in case something was not to your liking on a particular Pino.

    IMO and IME... by far the best 'old sounding P' I've ever played.
  8. pacojas

    pacojas "FYYA BUN" Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2009
    Location:
    MEXICANADAMERICA
    the Pino is AMAZING in anyones hands. even my kid was like, "WÖW"! if they were cheaper (or came un-relic'd like KJung said), they would be constantly hard to find, IMO.
  9. Kmrumedy

    Kmrumedy

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    Where is the break on the neck? Do you mean the front head stock shot where there is a hairline going through the G and D tuners?

    The filled in hole near the nut I would assume was probably a second string tree installed at some time.

    What would you say is a fair offer for the Pino?
  10. Davo-London

    Davo-London

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2007
    Location:
    London, England
    Refin '64 would be my choice. Though I would have had the body relic'd a bit more!

    Davo
  11. smcd

    smcd Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2009
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    I don't know if I'd call that a "hairline". I'd call that a major repair of a broken headstock. That is a a serious issue, or at least it was before it was repaired. I don't know what the owner at the time was doing to that bass, but it wasn't good. (when did a Pbass ever need another string tree??)

    Personally, I try not to talk myself into buying instruments with serious damage (unless the price is very very good). A bass like this will find it's way from owner to owner, and will be a difficult sell every time. There's just too much unknown about that bass for it to sell easily at that price.
  12. Davo-London

    Davo-London

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2007
    Location:
    London, England
    I must confess I did a double take on that. I have a '64 P and yes mine is black underneath.

    Davo
  13. Stone Soup

    Stone Soup

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2012
    I see the crack you're talking about. I had missed it initially. I have a bass here with a similar repair. It's not an issue. I still like it better than the Pino. I'm sure the Pino sounds great.
  14. pacojas

    pacojas "FYYA BUN" Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2009
    Location:
    MEXICANADAMERICA
    i think you should play a Pino!:cool: (a loss for words is a common reflex)
  15. extreme

    extreme

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2000
    '64 refin no question...and I absolutely love those early grey-bottom pickups and much prefer them over black-bottoms.
  16. smcd

    smcd Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2009
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    I assume you mean it's not an issue in regards to the sound/playability of your specific bass. I'm glad to hear that. However, how it affects the sound/playability of the bass up for sale is anyone's guess.

    Sound/playability aside, to potential buyers, a crack like that is a GIGANTIC issue. Every serious buyer will look at that crack, and the price they offer will be significantly lower than it would be were that crack not there. Cosmetic issues affect the collectability of a vintage instrument, but major repairs absolutely kill the collectability. Note that this bass has sat unsold for over 2 months.
  17. lowendmafia

    lowendmafia Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Location:
    Phoenix, Arizona
    A refin does not bother me at all, but that Pino bass is stupid good. That was back when the Custom Shop was an actual Custom Shop, not a production shop that makes high quality instruments like it is now. The Pino bass and the Original Jaco CS Jazz are the best 2 basses Fender ever made. Of course, this is just my opinion...
  18. Stone Soup

    Stone Soup

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2012
    Considering this bass is priced at $3,000.00 and not $8,000.00 or $9,000.00, one might think the seller had considered that. The headstock 'hairline' crack, if glued properly, is as strong or stronger than the wood.

    The assumption is the OP is buying it to PLAY, not to hang on his wall like a trophy.
  19. smcd

    smcd Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2009
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    The days when you could get $9grand for a '64 Pbass are gone. The current market price of a decent, original '64 Precision is $5,500-$6,500. If the bass the OP is considering was just a refin, I'd say $3k was a reasonable price. Even considering that the parts, though period correct, are not original to that bass. But with the major repairs - $3k ain't gonna happen. Proof positive - it remains unsold.

    It doesn't matter that the glue joint is stronger than the natural wood. Collectors don't care about that. What they DO care about is that there is a repair. This bass has the triple whammy of death -

    1. Non-original parts
    2. Refinish
    3. Multiple major repairs

    A prospective buyer can also safely assume that the body has been routed. The hack that drilled holes in the neck and broke the headstock almost certainly didn't stop there. Taking that into account, this bass is a hard sell.
  20. Stone Soup

    Stone Soup

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2012
    :eyebrow:
  21. Kmrumedy

    Kmrumedy

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    4 in favor for the refin and 4 for the Pino. Kinda cool!

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