opinions please

Discussion in 'Band Management [BG]' started by D1on, Jan 2, 2014.


  1. D1on

    D1on

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2011
    long story short, lost another venue in town and the one i house engineer at is struggling. The house system is a lease agreement with a larger sound co so every time bands play he pay me x$ and owes x$ for the system. needless to say he's getting in deeper and deeper because this is the type of guy that doesn't short the bands. (and the system is falling apart)

    Its been around since 74 and guys named dio, gramm and sheehan played in local bands here.

    Without giving all the details he's still thinking cover bands bring in more than originals but this club can not compete with the Miami vice/jearsey shore cover bars in town and I have yet to see the draw exceed the guarantee.

    rambling aside I'm going to prorpose this to him......

    The club is smack dab between the 50 and 400 occupancy rooms that book original bands so fill that niche

    Pull the big 32ch/ quad, quad dual yorky 40 par64 system and put my smaller system in.

    Bands get 20 tickets to sell give away what ever. they keep 100%

    $3 cash under surcharge that the club keeps
    first 20 paid through the door the club keeps

    after that the bands split the door.

    no more free drinks for the bands untill after the show and bands have to stay for all the other bands to get the door split.

    Obviously it will have to be refined but to my mind this is a way to keep the venue available, let the bands have incentive to promote and quite frankly if the bodies come through the door and the bar does well the owner is one of the few that will give the bands the whole door.

    so, am I nuts or what?
     
  2. Joe Louvar

    Joe Louvar

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2011
    Location:
    Santa Rosa, CA USA
    FWIW: I personally hate pay to play scams and boycott such venues.

     
  3. D1on

    D1on

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Really, how much is your original band getting paid per show?

    did you miss the part about sell or give away and keep 100%
     
  4. marko138

    marko138

    Joined:
    May 24, 2013
    Location:
    Perry County PA
    Agree. Good luck. Won't last long.
     
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  6. MatticusMania

    MatticusMania LANA! HE REMEMBERS ME!

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2008
    Location:
    Pomona, SoCal
    This is a bit confusing to me:

    So the band gets 20 tickets to sell or give away, I get that.
    What is the "$3 cash under surcharge that the club keeps"? Does that apply to the people who have a ticket?
     
  7. D1on

    D1on

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2011
    I think you may have missed the point, They don't HAVE to Sell tickets or hang out, they can continue to split 100 between three bands or take initiative.
     
  8. D1on

    D1on

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2011
    only if they're under 21, call it a one drink minimum.
     
  9. SteveHeissner

    SteveHeissner

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    Location:
    Gaithersburg, MD
    "...he's still thinking cover bands bring in more than originals".

    Yeah, I generally agree with him with one exception - the occasional extremely popular local band that draws huge crowds.
     
  10. D1on

    D1on

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Nope, this bar can't compete with the MILF bars at this point without a major remodel. Its better to go for a CBGB vibe and give the local scene a larger venue and an actual chance to get paid.
     
  11. SteveHeissner

    SteveHeissner

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    Location:
    Gaithersburg, MD
    MILF bars... LOL!!! Never really thought about it that way but I've gotta agree with you. :)
     
  12. -Kramer-

    -Kramer-

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2003
    Location:
    Charlotte, NC
    Looks like there is some confusion about what is going on here. Can you give us an example of what a band would take home?

    Let's say band sells the 20 tickets at $5 each.

    Then 120 show up (20 have already paid). What does the band get and what does the bar get in this situation?
     
  13. Joe Louvar

    Joe Louvar

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2011
    Location:
    Santa Rosa, CA USA
    I missed nothing - after expenses (IE: gas, etc) what's that workout to be per band member - maybe $5 each if they're lucky.

    The 3 bands would be better off renting a cheap recreation room, vets building, or whatever and bring in their own PA rather than give up complete control over revenues ($$$) to an old rundown bar with a beat up PA and no customer draw of their own.

    EDIT: Of course I can understand your wanting to secure work for yourself as a soundman, but scamming bands isn't the way to do it. ;)

    Anyway - you asked, and that's my opinion.

    BTW: How much is the bar renting the PA for? Point being, with PA gear so cheap these days, unless the rental is dirt cheap the bar would be better off owning.
     
  14. SnowCal

    SnowCal

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2012
    Location:
    Snowier Climes of California
    This seems too complicated to me. It's confusing.

    Guys hear 'tickets' and immediately cry 'pay to play', but if I understand you correctly this is more like each band gets a 20-person guest list (with 'tickets'). If they take some initiative they can sell the tickets for $5 apiece and pocket $100 before the show even starts. For local originals bands that's not bad. More can be made if the house is busy that night and merch is where the money is at anyway.

    What I don't like is how the bar gets the first 20 covers at the door and then $3 out of all further covers with the bands splitting the rest. It's not necessarily bad, it's just confusing.

    It depends a lot on what viable ticket prices are too.
     
  15. IPYF

    IPYF

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2011
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    I agree that this is way too complex.

    I honestly think that in this situation the bar manager needs to work on cutting some costs (the swap of the PA might save him some money) then do some market research to see what kind of venue people in the area actually want. Trying to cater to original bands only is dangerous.

    If he can't cut it amongst the bigger clubs then whipping a dead horse cheaply still probably wont fly in the long run.
     
  16. Kmonk

    Kmonk

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2012
    Location:
    South Shore, Massachusetts
    Disclosures:
    Endorsing Artist: Fender, Spector, Ampeg, Curt Mangan Strings

    How would he be filling a niche that is already being filled by the other clubs that surround him?

    It most areas, cover bands draw better than original bands but the truth is that for the most part, club bands do not draw like they did 30 years ago. There are too many entertainment options today than in the past.

    So the there is a $3 cover charge and the club keeps the first 20 through the door. No club owner is going to agree to be guaranteed just $60 on the door. Very few bands would agree to take the door either.

    The owner needs to sit down with an accountant who can examine the books. Then he can figure how much over head he really has. He can then decide how much he is willing to pay bands.

    Sounds like he is out of business but hasn't realized it yet.
     
  17. DiabolusInMusic

    DiabolusInMusic Functionless Art is Merely Tolerated Vandalism Gold Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2010
    Location:
    Saskatoon, Saskatchewan
    I would not even entertain the idea of playing at your venue.

    Next question.
     
  18. D1on

    D1on

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2011
    I think you get it.

    Using Kramer's question as an example.......

    3 bands and 120 people thru the door.

    Bands 1 and 2 sell 20 tiks ea@5.00
    Band 3 gives all their tiks away.
    That's 60 bodies

    Bands 1&2 have 100.00ea in pocket band 3 has nothing.

    Show night 60 more bodies in the door 30 of which are under 21.

    $5x60=$300
    $3x30= $90

    $300-$100(first 20 thru door)=$200

    Bar makes $190.00 on admissions
    Band 1&2 end up with $166.00 ea
    Band 3 ends up with $66.00

    Now with a capacity of 260 the math works this way with the same number of under age.

    Bar $190
    Band 1&2 $226
    Band 3 $126

    Now add merch and tell me how this deal sucks for a local band not playing covers in a place with a real stage sound and lights.

    Edited to add: the bands can sell more than 20 tickets if they want to as well which ups what they pocket.
     
  19. mellowinman

    mellowinman Guaranteed to break the Ice at Naughty Parties Supporting Member

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    I wouldn't touch that with a ten foot pole.
     
  20. modulusman

    modulusman

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2004
    Location:
    montana
    Just out of curiosity you want to pull the house sound and lights and replace it with your rig. What do you have and is anywhere near as good?
     
  21. invader3k

    invader3k Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2004
    Location:
    Fort Atkinson, WI
    Sounds like the place is basically a dive bar. Only young and very inexperienced bands are going to fall for the "sell or giveaway tickets" type of scheme to play a place like that.
     

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