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PA expense, Band Vs Personal ?

Discussion in 'Band Management [BG]' started by Doley50, Feb 27, 2014.

  1. Doley50

    Doley50

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    Hello,

    I have been with my cover band for a little over a year, The drummer, guitarist and myself started it.
    When we started to put the PA together, the guitarist was not able to contribute, the drummer was able to purchase the bulk and I have a lot stuff that is small but essential.
    I personal invested half the mic's, all the mic stands, most of the audio cables, a music stand, fans ( for cooling us off ), extension cords, power strips, cases for the cables and all the other "little things" direct boxes, cables testers,etc....
    While I realize wear and tear is inevitable, my concern was What happens when something breaks ?
    I have replaced and purchased a few cables no big deal, I have all my stuff marked, so there is no mix up.
    We as a band have been paying on the PA, we have been cutting it in as a fifth member on most of the shows and it is almost paid. The PA is defined as the purchases that the drummer has made, Subs, Monitors, mixing board and lights.
    The singer had been using a vocal mic of mine, a Beyer TG-X80, I believe I have paid almost $400.00 for and of course the other night it stopped working.
    So now the question is what, if any, action do I take?
    The guitarist is an electrical engineer and he is going to look at it, if he can fix it, well that's great, but what if he can't ?
    The mic is not made anymore, Beyer can fix it, but it may cost more to fix it then it would be to replace.
    Do I hold my ground a little firm with the band and ask that they replace it, do I just go out and buy a less expensive Mic and just use it myself, I am not sure how to handle this, I don't want to be an ass, but at the same time, if my stuff is going to get broken and not replaced, that is just not fair.
    I'll just throw this in, the drummer uses a sampler and had to replace it twice and has put that cost onto the PA !


    In a perfect world all these issues would have been written in a band agreement prior to spending a dime, but well part of that is my fault for not thinking ahead, I was more then willing to offer up my equipment , Now the drummer want to use my Apple TV and Airport Express for the show!
    Sorry No.


    Another concern is that the singer, she does not have her own mic, and was using this one, ( Yes I suggested she use it, because it sounded much better then our other mic) She would swing it around by the cable, she dropped it a few times, because of swinging it, at the end of the show, she looked at me and said, that's weird it just stopped working!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:scowl::mad: I said well you swing it around and you have dropped it a few times ! The problem is she is new to this whole business and some people when they actually have not paid for something have a hard time taking care of other peoples stuff.
    I have ask her not to swing it around a few times ,but......

    Sorry guys, I was trying to make this short so I could get some feedback.
  2. troy mcclure

    troy mcclure Supporting Member

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    There are plenty of threads on band funded PA on here, most of us weekend warriors start like you and piece together a system from various members of the band.
    In a perfect world, I would not be in the PA and light business. When I first started out back in the game about 8 years ago, I started investing in PA and Lights as it made me more attractive as an addition to a band. I am now selling off my PA gear. It is easy to feel slighted when you have thousands of dollars invested in gear and 1 member has no money in and abuses your stuff.
    I would setup some hard fast rules now
    Get your own mic and cable or don't swing mine.
    Decide who is going to pay for repairs on the drummers gear
    Even though cables are expensive buy stuff with a warranty that is easy to walk into a GC or sam ash and swap out.
    Here is one that comes up..who gets the gear to the gig? Do they get extra money for gas? When we 1st start a band we are so anxious to play we don't address this. In my current band we pay the PA trailer driver $50 a weekend for tolls and gas if the gig is more than 25 miles ( 4 trips over 2 nights tolls each way).
  3. Roland GR 88

    Roland GR 88 Supporting Member

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    I've done it two ways in the past. 1st - whoever buys and maintains the gear owns it, keeps it after the band breaks up and can charge the band a share of the take for maintenance. Replace the mic and charge 20% to the band. 2nd - each member is responsible for their own gear and that is defined by what is on stage and used exclusively by them. In a singers case this would include the mic, stand, monitor, cable and any personal effects. If your singer thinks that's crazy, go rent an old SM58 with somebody else's lunch stuck in the screen and see if she gets the hint.
  4. cv115505

    cv115505 Supporting Member

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    The way we do it is each person bought components, and if it breaks, we use the band fund to fix it. If we break up, each person takes his/her components and go on their merry way.
  5. hdracer

    hdracer Supporting Member

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    The singer can not buy her own mic and broke yours?

    I can only think of one answer for that.....
  6. hrodbert696

    hrodbert696 Supporting Member

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    Well, for one thing... one does not swing a $400 mic around if one is not the owner thereof oneself. The owner should make this explicitly, abundantly clear to one if one is to dumb to know that oneself. And one should, of course, compensate the owner for any damage one's idiocy has done to their gear.

    In my old band, the drummer bought the PA and we created an extra cut of gig money to compensate him for it. In my current band, some PA components belong to the drummer and others to the guitarist. Rather than creating an extra cut for them, what we've done is to put the first two gigs' money into a maintenance/repair fund for any components that go bad. After that it's even splits. If the PA fund gets used up, we'll do another unpaid gig (for the rest of us) to replenish it. I suggested giving them an extra cut, but they didn't want it, so we went with this plan instead. I think either way is fine, as long as it's agreed by all and you don't have group ownership of the gear, which gets messy if anyone leaves.
  7. bassgod0dmw

    bassgod0dmw Supporting Member

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    Th singer should absolutely buy their own mic. Period. They should also be replacing yours because they broke it.
  8. BassCliff

    BassCliff

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    Hi,

    In every band I have ever been in, each individual member owned their own instruments, amps, mics, cables, mic stands, music stands, fans, etc. One person would own the PA, usually the band leader.

    Being a "pro" or "semi-pro" means owning your own instrument. Me, being a bass player and a vocalist, I own my own mics (I've collected several over the years and don't mind lending them on a gig if necessary), I own my basses and amps, I have my own mic stands, music stands, cables (all types - instrument cables, speaker cables, mic cables, etc), basically everything I need to show up at a gig, set up my gear, plug into a PA, and put on my show. I have extras to loan on the gig if necessary.

    Sure, I didn't have all of this when I first started out but I saved my gig money until I could buy my own gear. I did not depend on others to provide me gear for an extended length of time. Sure, I would borrow a bass or a mic once in a while but I made sure I became self-sufficient as soon as possible.

    Now I even own my own PA, just because sometimes I need one and it's a hassle borrowing a PA from a friend, even though they are more than happy to loan me theirs. I certainly would replace anything that I broke.

    The thing about a "band" buying a PA is that eventually most bands break up. When that happens, how do you split the gear? I was in one band for a long time where the BL owned the PA and brought it to every gig and I owned all the monitor speakers and brought them to every gig. The ownership was well-defined and there was no hassle when we stopped gigging together regularly.

    I realize every situation is different and sometimes you do what you have to do to make your gigs work. I hope you can come to an amicable solution. Your singer owes you a microphone. If she won't or can't replace it then I would buy a standard SM58 and let her use that. They sound good, can take a lot of abuse, and are not that expensive ($100 or less on sale).


    Thank you for your indulgence,

    BassCliff
  9. ChrisB2

    ChrisB2 Bass... in your fass Supporting Member

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    It's obvious by the standard applied to PA gear that the policy for your band is that shared/common equipment is purchased and maintained by the band. So don't be upset, just have the band pay for a new mike and reimburse you for all your other costs for shared equipment.

    If they won't do it, you're getting screwed. If you allow yourself to get screwed that's on you.

    Good luck.
  10. Luke19Boarder

    Luke19Boarder

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    I'd suggest doing the same with the mic?

    If everyone in the band isn't on board with it, it should come from the singer. And now would be a good time to have a band discussion on how these issues should be resolved in the future.
  11. BassCliff

    BassCliff

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    Hi,

    Yes, if it's "community/band" equipment then the "community/band" should pay for it.

    If it's not "band-owned" and it's your individual mic that you are loaning to the band, you may have to eat the cost of a new mic if your singer doesn't take responsibility.

    If the "band" buys the new mic, it then becomes "band" property. If/when the band breaks up you'll have to decide who gets what.


    Thank you for your indulgence,

    BassCliff
  12. Chuck King

    Chuck King Supporting Member

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    If they are not willing to pay for the repair or replacement of the mic, you may want to consider itemizing all the other little stuff you provide and suggest that you are hesitant to continue putting it at risk. It sounds like there's another mic available, but if they have to come up with a bunch of cords etc. in short order, they may realize that you are making a significant contribution to the band business.
  13. Joe Louvar

    Joe Louvar

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    In a perfect world - a sound reinforcement company would always provide everything. However, most small bands own a little PA on sticks. It would be nice if everyone at least owned their own mic, stand, monitor, and cables - but most small band BL's know they need to cover their butts, so they end up owning everything and the smart BL take a small percentage off top to help cover the extra cost and labor.
  14. Doley50

    Doley50

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    After talking with the "BL" he has agreed to have the band pay for the repair or replacement of the mic.
    While the mic is not made anymore, I'm hoping the repair cost will be minimal.
    So that is all good news.
    I original posted the mic cost me 400.00 but I'am not 100% on that anymore, I was able to find in online for 250, but I also purchased my mic, maybe 15+ years ago when 250.00 felt more like 400.00, to me anyway.

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