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Placing di between head and cab help please

Discussion in 'Live Sound [BG]' started by victor5string, Jan 10, 2012.

  1. victor5string

    victor5string

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    Hi all

    Ok here we go, I've always had issues at gigs where soundguys don't whish to mic the cab and only use a di, this is fine and a good di can sound great but now I use more effects and especially overdives mostly coming from my Pearce bc1 and DHA vt2-twin eq. But these don't sound good via di.

    So I recently started looking at running two di's as I feel sound guys will be more open to doing this so one clean di and one effected in-between the head and cab like guitarists do. So I've been looking at loads of di's and amp emulators, palmer stuff has been looking very interesting but most of them have attenuators on them with none selectable ohm ratings and can only handle up around 120watts which is far from enough. Does any one use the palmer stuff like the pdi 03, pdi 09 PGA 05 ect and if so could you let me know if I can bypass the power soak but still have the speaker emulator and di.

    Then there is the beringer g 100 di which can (supposedly) handle up to 3000watts more then enough, I know the sound quality will not be up to that of the palmer stuff but could be worth a look any one used this dimand can give me some feedback.

    Any adive or info would be a great help, as this way of producing my sound live will solve alot of problems and my drives can used to full effect.

    Cheers

    Vic

    Ps my current gear Pearce bc 1 into gk fusion 550(only using the power amp of the gk) into Schroeder 410l
  2. MuzikMan

    MuzikMan

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    Both the Countryman Type 85 and the Avalon U5 can be placed between the amp and cabs.
  3. bongomania

    bongomania Gold Supporting Member

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    Disclosures:
    owner, OVNIFX and OVNILabs
    Most of the overdrive etc. in your current rig is from the two preamps, not the power section. And the power section IS NOT changing the overdrive tone from "bad" to "good". So you do not need to take the signal post the power section! You do not need to think about watts.

    The thing that's making your OD more pleasant is the speaker cab, rolling off the highs. So you want something that rolls off the highs similarly. Yes, Palmer makes a DI that includes the speaker sim, I think it's the PDI-09. But a simple EQ will do just as well--in fact that's all that speaker sim is: an EQ!

    You could run like this:
    bass --> #1 DI --> XLR to PA mixer channel 1
    #1 DI 1/4" output --> preamp 1 --> preamp 2 --> #2 DI
    #2 DI XLR --> EQ unit or speaker sim box --> PA mixer channel 2
    #2 DI 1/4" output --> fx loop return of GK head

    Or, just mic the cab and call it a day.
  4. victor5string

    victor5string

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    Does the countryman 85 and u5 have a power limit they can take as I like to run at 4ohms to get the most power would this fry the di's but sometimes I have to run 8ohms due to kit share at gigs. If the countryman can handle it great.

    Any news on the other products I mentioned?

    Cheers

    Vic
  5. victor5string

    victor5string

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    I run the Pearce into the fx return of the gk and the DHA is used to go infront of the amp as Dave said is best. Using a mic is hit and miss I'm based in the uk and the gigs I play have multiple bands on so soundguys have little time and really only want to di, and as I play loud heavy rock the di with speacker emulator will get rid of mic bleed. Would also rather keep it simple and not use an eq that could be moved ect and have settings checked each gig.

    Are you saying take say the palmer pdi09 out of the palmer before the power amp section of the gk so that will have all the Pearce tone and any pedals?
  6. bongomania

    bongomania Gold Supporting Member

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    owner, OVNIFX and OVNILabs
    Yes, that's what I said.
    Yes. Send the overdrive sources through the Palmer, to the PA.

    As far as EQ settings getting changed, that is in your control.
  7. victor5string

    victor5string

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    Hey bongomania your really helping mate cheers. Can I just ask one more question? With my Pearce I use the mixer out to connect to the gk fx return could I use the unbalanced line out into the palmer? The pre also has an aux fx loop(along side channel 1 and 2 fx loops) would this be any use?
  8. bongomania

    bongomania Gold Supporting Member

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    Yes, the input of the Palmer is unbalanced, so you could certainly use any unbalanced output to feed it. Experiment with the various outputs to see which one has the most ideal levels for the purpose.
  9. victor5string

    victor5string

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    Thanks for your help, will make gigs a bit easier.
  10. bongomania

    bongomania Gold Supporting Member

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    What he was thanking me for was advice that happens to completely avoid anything at all related to the problems agedhorse brought up in that thread.
  11. BigMac5

    BigMac5

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    I really don’t like a post DI. The EQ used for the Cab will sound totally different through the PA and can be difficult to work with even with all the eq knobs at noon. I prefer a microphone or a Pre-DI.
  12. bgmww

    bgmww

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    Endorsing Artist: Hiwatt UK
  13. sevdog

    sevdog

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    Buy the sound guy a shot and get him to run the DI and mic the cab.
  14. mattattack187

    mattattack187 Bass Enthusiast Supporting Member

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    I run the Dunlop MXR M80 at the end of my effects chain, that Pedal works wonders.
  15. c2thej2theizzo

    c2thej2theizzo

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    +1
    Hopefully the keyboardist did not already do this to get the sound guy to run stereo DI and guitarist to mic both cabinets - it may not matter after 3 shots.
  16. MoWBass

    MoWBass

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    What do you think about the Palmer pdi 09? It doesn´t need battery like the Countryman Type 85
  17. walterw

    walterw Supportive Fender Gold Supporting Member

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    "why is the soundguy riding the faders with his face?"
  18. Keithwah

    Keithwah Supporting Member

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    I think I might run one DI from bass to FOH, and then add a second after your last effect pedal. But I don't think I've ever heard an amp output "add" to the sound but usually detract. Again you are EQ'ing your amp for your stage cabinets, not for the house speakers.....I don't know, I wouldn't. I grew up and stopped using the DI outs on amps years ago simply because I have more success with eliminating ground issues to FOH by keeping my signal away from the amp. A good sound man will thank you.
  19. walterw

    walterw Supportive Fender Gold Supporting Member

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    i can see speaker-level DIs with tube amps run hard, but what's the point with a solid-state amp? all the "character" is in the preamp stage, so a line out would do the same thing.

    (and as has been mentioned, with some new class D heads you don't wanna do this anyway, because they do the speaker negative differently and could put a very ugly voltage surge into the DI that cooks the mixing board.)

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