Question regarding adding a 210 to my 4 ohm 610

Discussion in 'Amps [BG]' started by dukeisdog, Nov 11, 2012.


  1. dukeisdog

    dukeisdog Supporting Member

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    Hey guys, I have a Mesa PH610 and a PH210 came up locally, my 610 is 4 ohms, the 210 is 8 ohms. Is that a good match or no? He's asking a little too much IMO but if I can get it down enough and it'll work Id finally have a PH810.. kinda lol.
     
  2. RickenBoogie

    RickenBoogie

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    Not an ideal pairing at all, and further, when combined, the load will be 2.6 ohms. Most amps are 4 ohms minimum, so your amp would need to be 2 ohm stable, but the power distribution will still be imbalanced, with each spkr in the 210 receiving double (approx.) what each spkr in the 610 receives.
     
  3. B-string

    B-string Supporting Member

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    I would call that plan X, as in extra bad idea. ;)
     
  4. Kmonk

    Kmonk

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    Not a good idea. As Rickenboogie mentioned, the load would be 2.6 ohms. Most amps are designed to run at 8, 4 or 2 ohms.
     
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  6. dukeisdog

    dukeisdog Supporting Member

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    Awesome, thanks a lot! Would've liked to have picked it up but not worth it. Amp can run 2 ohms stable but not worth risking the 210 speakers.
     
  7. dukeisdog

    dukeisdog Supporting Member

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    Now another question:


    My gigging cab is a PH412, and I love this thing. I have the opportunity to pick up this PH410/PH210 stack for a good price and also already have a PH610. How would the 2X 610 rig compare to my 412 I already have?
     
  8. CL400Peavey

    CL400Peavey Supporting Member

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    You run into the same problems mixing the 210 and 410. If the 210 is 8 Ohms and the 410 is 4 ohms then you have equal power distribution between those cabs, but you have a 2.7 Ohm load. Adding a 4 Ohm 610 might work if you are using a stereo power amp, but you wouldnt be able to run them in parallel. All three cabs in parallel is a 1.6 Ohm impedance, not safe for any amp I know of. Even if you could, you dont have a balanced power distribution.
     
  9. dukeisdog

    dukeisdog Supporting Member

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    I'll clarify here.

    My current 610 is 4 ohms,
    PH210 - 8 ohms
    PH410- 8 ohms

    I should be running a stable 2 ohms with this setup, and my crest Prolite should be able to handle it no problem.

    Edit: if I pick up the 410 and 210 and run 2X 610's the 412 will be sold, I won't be able to keep all 3 cabs.
     
  10. CL400Peavey

    CL400Peavey Supporting Member

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    So you are still running into a power distribution problem. The individual speakers in the 210 will be getting double the power that the individual speakers in the 410 will be getting. Both of which are different than the power going to the individual speakers in the 610.
     
  11. dukeisdog

    dukeisdog Supporting Member

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    Okay, that's interesting. I always thought I had the concept of ohms down, but I've never really run two cabs before nevermind 3 at once. I just thought that because the combined ohms of the 410 and 210 would be 4, the same as my current 610 it would just drop to 2 and distribution would be even.

    Do the ohms effect the power distribution at all? I'm finding it hard to think of a situation where a 210+410 would be ideal but can't find one. Why would one buy a rig like this with the same ohmage if it's not the best way to get things done?
     
  12. Tuned

    Tuned

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    2.6 Ohms is safe for any amp that can run 2 Ohm loads. I recommend you get the 2x10 not to add to the 6x10, but to have a smaller cab for gigs that don't need the 6x10.
     
  13. CL400Peavey

    CL400Peavey Supporting Member

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    So look at it this way:

    You have two 4 Ohm branches, half of the power goes to the 610 side, half to the 410/210 side. So each speaker in the 610 gets 1/12th of the total power. On the 410/210 side, the power is split again, 1/8th the total power goes to the 410 and the same to the 210. So each speaker in the 410 gets 1/32nd of the total power. Each speaker in the 210 gets 1/16th of the total power.
     
  14. georgestrings

    georgestrings Banned

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    No, most amps will have a minimum impedence rating - there is nothing wrong with running a 2.6 ohm load off an amp that's rated down to 2 ohms...


    - georgestrings
     
  15. dukeisdog

    dukeisdog Supporting Member

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    So talking general loudness here, how loud would that stack allow me to get before the 21" farted out? I mean, obviously scientifically it's not the greatest idea, but I can get the cabs for a pretty decent price and it would be cool to leave the 610, 410 at the jam space and transport the 210 back and forth. I know I'm playing with fire here, but what would be the odds of blowing the drivers in the 210. I don't really see myself playing any shows that I could get by with a single 8 ohm 210, I play in a hardcore band in drop A, 5 string basses, I like my big rigs haha. If it's really not a good idea and it sounds that way, I'll just leave it as is and wait for another PH610 to come up, but we don't have a ridiculous practice/stage volume or anything, but you guys really know your stuff and I probably shouldn't be trying to get around what you're saying.
     
  16. CL400Peavey

    CL400Peavey Supporting Member

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    You already have a PH 610 and a PH 412 right?

    Find some other small cab and keep those. They are considered two of the best cabs on the market. IMHO its not worth selling anything to make a 210/410 stack try and work. You would probably have better results pairing the existing 610 and 412.
     
  17. dukeisdog

    dukeisdog Supporting Member

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    Yeah, I've already paired them together and the tone was awesome, I just find that the 412 is a little too big, we can manage it in the van but my 610 hasn't even seen a jam with the current band I'm in. Ideally I'd like to sell the 4X12 and move to two smaller cabs like the 610's but they don't come up second hand very often, that's why I was ready to jump on the 410/210 combo. I would rather save my money and buy another 4 ohm 610 and just run identical cabs so I don't need to worry about phase issues, etc.

    I really love the PH412 and it's easily the best cab I've ever played through, but the bands trying to get out more and play more shows, trying to get out of the city this summer and I don't think the guys would like me bringing the 412 and 610 with me. At least two 610's can be stacked on their sides to save space. I really wish Mesa could've fit the 412 in the 610 box, this cab has all of the tone I want and need, but the smaller cab is easier to wheel around, but worse with stairs.


    And to think I was finished with my rig haha.
     
  18. CL400Peavey

    CL400Peavey Supporting Member

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    Well if all that falls through, sell everything and get two 15/6's. :bag:
     
  19. grenadilla

    grenadilla

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    Not perfect=no, but if the 210 cabinet can handle 300 watts easily, it woulld allow 900 watts of to both cabinets. REAL LOUD ! That is 600 watts to the 610, or 100 watts per speaker. The 210 speakers would get 150 watts each. Odds are, these cabinets sound way different and EQ for one cabinet would not be perfect for the other cabinet.
     
  20. RickenBoogie

    RickenBoogie

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    Yeah, keep your 610, forget about combini8ng a 410 and 210 to make a 2nd 610, it won't work out well. Sell the 412 if you must, though I wouldn't, and get a 2nd 610 if that's what you want. But, the 410 + 210 does NOT equal a 610, unless it's a 4 ohm 410 and 8 ohm 210., which would still not work in your situation.
     
  21. Ric5

    Ric5 Supporting Member

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    Good match ... no.

    I built my own bass cabs ... 6 of them. They are all 8 ohms. I can mix and match 10s 15s and an 18 as long as I use 2 of them.
     

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