Sniper Battle at Stalingrad? A Myth?

Discussion in 'Off Topic [BG]' started by burk48237, Jan 7, 2014.

  1. burk48237


    Nov 22, 2004
    Oak Park, MI
    Interesting article here. I'm not surprised, while the Soviets paid a horrific cost in WW II, we forget how colored and controlled their history was. We also forget that the Soviets originally allied with Hitler. I made comments about this in the Kalashnikov thread. That we don't really know how much myth was produced from that era and the Soviet propaganda machine.
  2. PJ Muzikmansky

    PJ Muzikmansky

    Jan 4, 2013
    Interesting Burk. Thanks for that.

    While we're on the subject, have you scene the excellent 1973 BBC documentary 'World at War' (narrated by Lord Olivier), in particular, the episode on the Battle of Stalingrad ? There is footage of a red army sniper shooting german soldiers from his hideout in the rubble.
  3. ShoeManiac

    ShoeManiac Supporting Member

    Jan 19, 2006
    New Jersey
    The movie Enemy At The Gates covered the story of Soviet sniper Vasily Zaitsev in a nice way. But a big part of that film was how this sniper could serve as a propaganda tool in order to rally the Soviet people during the brutal battle at Stalingrad. The whole sniper's duel makes for a good novel/feature film. But in reality? Who knows. Considering that much of the German army that took part in the battle at Stalingrad was later annihilated as they attempted to retreat from the city and Southern Russia, it makes independent verification of these stories difficult at best.
  4. Relic

    Relic Cow are you?

    Sep 12, 2006
    Robbinsville, NJ
    History.. now you're speaking my language!
    Just a quick input since I'm working and am busy as heck - yes "sniper battles" were not uncommon.
    The Soviets made great use of them. There were even more than a few very skilled female snipers.
    On the Eastern Front (not just Stalingrad) snipers were dealt with in a variety of ways, depending on the situation. Spotting was key - once the sniper was spotted, if it was possible, artillery or air support was used to obliterate the sniper's position.
    In those circumstances where snipers were very well-hidden and very skilled, about the only counter to that, was another sniper. The Soviets and the Finns battled each other this way especially as did the nazis and the Soviets.
    Intriguing stuff
  5. Sponsored by:

  6. Nashrakh


    Aug 16, 2008
    Hamburg, Germany
    No. The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact was a non-aggression treaty which is not the same as "allying" with one another like the US did with the British, Australians, etc pp.

    You may not notice it, but there's American "propaganda" speaking through you as well. It's not like only the "bad guys" do it you know (Manifest destiny anyone?).

    Whether the Sniper Battle was true... I don't know. Did the Americans actually land on the moon first? :ninja:
  7. PJ Muzikmansky

    PJ Muzikmansky

    Jan 4, 2013
    Shoe: In point of fact, there was no attempt at retreat as it was expressly forbidden by Hitler. Paulus surrendered the 6th army while they were still trapped in the pocket.
  8. The eastern front was a meat grinder. Nothing surprises me in terms of brutality when it comes to that battle.

    The German-language film "Stalingrad" is a must-watch for any history buff.
  9. And the Finns certainly faired better, the number casualties taken, particularly given the difference in the armies of the winter war, was fairly telling.
  10. PJ Muzikmansky

    PJ Muzikmansky

    Jan 4, 2013
    The outcome of the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact signed in August 1939 was, for all intents and purposes, the same as had the two countries been allies. It gave Hitler free reign to attack Poland from the west, allowed Stalin to come into Poland from the east and then attack Finland (ostensibly a nazi ally) without interference from Hitler. It then allowed Hitler to... a) attack Western Europe with no interference from Stalin and ...b) to attack Russia itself on 22nd June 1941.
  11. burk48237


    Nov 22, 2004
    Oak Park, MI
    I don't recall that scene, but I do remember that documentary. The other interesting thing was that most of the shots were around a hundred yards. Americans in the Revolutionary were routinely shooting at those distances. Almost any reasonably good military level shot could hit those all day. It's not the 1500 meters crawl into position stuff of Chris Kyle.
  12. burk48237


    Nov 22, 2004
    Oak Park, MI
    Agreed. While it was mostly out of fear that Stalin turned towards Hitler. The reality was the two of them carved up Poland with zero remorse. They were for all intents and purposes allies for a good year and a half. And Stalin didn't turn against Germany until operation Barbarossa. Stalin was so evil that the Ukrainians (and most of the Baltic states) cheered the Nazis when they first invaded.
  13. PJ Muzikmansky

    PJ Muzikmansky

    Jan 4, 2013
    Agreed, but the lesser of two evils in this context (Hitler being the foremost of course)...
  14. One Drop

    One Drop Supporting Member

    Oct 10, 2004
    Swiss Alps
    Arguably. Stalin wasn't exactly a pussycat but for some reason we tend to overlook the millions he murdered or starved and froze to death.
  15. Silence or we send you to Siberia.
  16. GIBrat51

    GIBrat51 Supporting Member

    Mar 5, 2013
    Lost Wages, Nevada
    I have this excellent documentary on DVD; I'm pretty sure that bit was edited out of the TV version (as was a lot of stuff, for time). There are some scenes of German snipers in a couple of episodes, too; but it's hard to tell what they're using. There's also a shot of a Marine sniper, in one of the Pacific War episodes, using an '03 Springfield with one of the long Lyman target scopes available at the time. Interesting stuff.
  17. PJ Muzikmansky

    PJ Muzikmansky

    Jan 4, 2013
    You've missed my point slightly.

    No one is overlooking the monstrous crimes Stalin committed. I was subtly hinting at the fact that Hitler was the foremost of the two evils, specifically in the Ukraine and western Russia at large, post June 22nd 1941 Why? because rather than deciding to pursue a policy of cooperation with local populations at large,thus recruiting them to an anti Stalinist cause (somewhat of a moot point really, because to do such a thing was anathema to nazi racial policy) Hitler merely reverted to wholesale genocide.
  18. P. Aaron

    P. Aaron Supporting Member

    Antony Beevor's Stalingrad book is as comprehensive assembly of that battle as any available. The accolades for his work are extensive too.

    Beevor's does this without bogging the reader down in the mundane. He writes in a memorable way. The Fall of Berlin and D-Day are also available.
  19. PJ Muzikmansky

    PJ Muzikmansky

    Jan 4, 2013 excellent book
  20. kserg


    Feb 20, 2004
    San jose, Cal
    Truth is, if we all heard truth about Russian side of WW2 it would made you all sick. I don't think people could handle reading those stories.

    Few examples: mine sweeping was done by humans. The units were made by order#227 (shtrafbat (штрафбат)). This was a unit with prisoners, political prisoners, undesirables and others. They were used as basically suicide units. For instance before tanks went through mine field, shtrafbat was sent to run across the fields (no guns or anything) to blow up and take out the mines with their bodies. After tanks would go on the "cleared" field.
    Under same order, there was a unit behind army who would shoot anyone who stepped back. Murdering their own people.

    So yeah, unless you include all these facts, every story about Eastern front is a myth, because a story that will include this will no longer be "entertainment". I don't believe a single story that comes out of Soviet Union/Russia - it's mostly a lie/propaganda. Anyone who believed any of the stories created by Soviet Union is insane.

    Russia wins wars with bodies.
  21. kserg


    Feb 20, 2004
    San jose, Cal
    Well, the didn't just cheered Nazis, they joined them. Those Ukrainians who joined Nazi army were no saints themselves. At time, killing jews was very popular in Ukraine. Germans recruited Ukrainians to murder jews and those who went with Germans were happy to do so.

    The people who joined Nazis were idiots who did not understand that once Nazi Germany was done with them, their would in return murder them too. The plan was to whip out all Slavic people.

    Stalin and Hitler were one of the same, difference was, Stalin was going after people in his own country and was not ready to "take over the world", while Hitler was. There for, this made Hitler worse. But Ukrainians who joined Nazis did not do it just because they hated Stalin.

Play guitar too? Become a founding member of