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speaker area

Discussion in 'Amps [BG]' started by Rhon, Aug 19, 2013.

  1. Rhon

    Rhon

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    if the guitarist has a 4x12 with a 50 watt head then his speaker surface area is like 452 right? so to compete with him is to have that much surface area or more, right?

    i know there's fearful cabs and super 15's but doesn't having a comparable speaker surface area provide a much more fuller sound like how line arrays are coupled versus just one speaker that could somehow provide the same volume.

    the reason for all this is my 4x10 is loud enough and cuts thru no problem, but the sound isn't as full as the guitarist so idk if its the cab or lack of speaker area.
  2. bongomania

    bongomania Gold Supporting Member

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    Disclosures:
    owner, OVNIFX and OVNILabs
    Unfortunately you're mixing up a lot of different factors that aren't really related in the way you think.

    Surface area is one way of guesstimating how loud a cab can go in comparison to other cabs from the same manufacturer and model line; and it makes enough sense to say that a 8x10 will have a lot more ability to pump air compared to a 2x10. But apart from that it doesn't tell you anything about tone, efficiency, fullness, or really anything useful at all when comparing different brands or types of cab, and especially not when comparing guitar and bass cabs.

    Line arrays and coupling have nothing to do with matching speaker surface areas of guitar and bass cabs.

    So what's the real problem? Well maybe your cab just doesn't sound good. Maybe your amp doesn't sound good. Maybe you need more power to give your low frequencies more heft and balls. Remember that loudness is not directly correlated to wattage; but it does take extra power to really pump out lows. If you up the wattage though, you also have to make sure your cab can handle the increased power. Without changing the amp, you can get some "free" extra lows by getting a bigger speaker cab--increasing the speaker surface area! :p So yes you may find that you will get a bigger sound with a bigger speaker setup. But it has nothing to do with the guitarist's speakers surface area, or line arrays, etc.
  3. Rick James

    Rick James

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    Wrong. Surface area doesn't matter, speaker excursion/displacement does. Bass needs at least four times the displacement, and four times the amp power, as electric guitar. Too bad that only one manufacturer, Barefaced, tells you the displacement of their cabs.
    http://barefacedbass.com/technical-information.htm
  4. Vince Klortho

    Vince Klortho

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    That is also wrong. You can not correctly state that displacement and excursion matter but surface area does not. Displacement is the product of excursion AND surface area and that means they BOTH matter.
  5. CL400Peavey

    CL400Peavey Supporting Member

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    You are splitting hairs. Surface area alone does not matter. Its not even a good indicator of how low or loud a speaker will go for bass.
  6. Foz

    Foz

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    nah.. he's just expressing the necessary variables in context... no hairs were harmed!
  7. Spent

    Spent Supporting Member

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    Get a Thumpinator or fDeck to help make your rig more efficient. You may be wasting a lot of power for no good reason. As Bongomania stated, it takes more power to produce low frequencies than high. A good compressor will also help IMHO.
  8. Vince Klortho

    Vince Klortho

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    I think YOU are splitting hairs. I did NOT write that surface area alone matters. I wrote that it matters just as much as excursion does and it is incorrect to state that it does not.
  9. B-string

    B-string Supporting Member

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    +1

    All hairs intact. :)
  10. seamonkey

    seamonkey

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    In any case, cabinet manufacturers, except barefaced, greenboy, in do not give you enough information to make a educated decision. It seems that bass players can't handle the facts :)
  11. Vince Klortho

    Vince Klortho

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    Thank goodness. I don't have any to spare. :cool:
  12. Rhon

    Rhon

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    soooooo, one speaker can create just as full a sound as a lot of speakers? so the solution is more efficient speakers? im not trying to get louder, im trying to have a sound that doesnt seem so beamed, but rather has a lot of dispersion
  13. mrjim123

    mrjim123

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    Do a little research. Everybody here is basically trying to tell you that its not as simple as you're trying to make it.
  14. Rhon

    Rhon

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    ive done the research and nothing seems conclusive...
  15. mrjim123

    mrjim123

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    It is conclusive, but you must do the concluding. :D
  16. B-string

    B-string Supporting Member

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    If you are looking for it in the mids you need a stacked pair of vertical 210's. Smaller cones don't beam as narrow as larger cones as frequency goes up.
    That said I was surprised how wide a staggered 412 performed.
  17. Downunderwonder

    Downunderwonder

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    The 4x10 format gives you the beam. The same speakers lined up in a vertical column is just as loud without the beam.
  18. Downunderwonder

    Downunderwonder

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  19. Rhon

    Rhon

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    my guitarist's cab has a lot of low end dispersion you can feel his lows much better than mine. i have the bass pumping, but its more centered. whereas his cab seems to be sending the lows from the front, side, and behind. my cab tends to just beam the lows and so is it the lack of speakers or speaker size? a.k.a. speaker surface area
  20. Rhon

    Rhon

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    so a vertical 4x10 will give more dispersion? i've played a 6x10 and that has more speaker surface area than a guitarists 4x12 and i noticed the lows filled up the place soooo what everyone is saying is that thats coincidence and its more likely that 6x10 had longer excursion and more displacement?
    trying to understand :crying:

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