Switching out the speakers in a fender 4x10 guitar combo (Super, Deville, Bassman)?

Discussion in 'Amps [BG]' started by findthe1, Jan 23, 2014.


which combo?

  1. Bassman

    38 vote(s)
    70.4%
  2. Super Reverb

    11 vote(s)
    20.4%
  3. Hot Rod Deville

    5 vote(s)
    9.3%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. findthe1

    findthe1

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2013
    Location:
    Vancouver
    Been thinking about acquiring a fender 4x10 valve guitar combo amp to run in a bi-amp setting.

    Should I: Swap the speakers for eminence bp102's, just leave the stock speakers in and run the combo mic'd at a lower volume, or possibly run the cabinet with two bass speakers and two guitar speakers?

    I'm thinking the 60 watts from the deville, 45 from the super reverb or 50 from the bassman might sound weak through the bass speakers rated for 200 watts. The 2/2 configuration might be good because I'd get the gnarly tone from the moving guitar speakers and hopefully a more smooth delivery from the bass speakers blending.

    Someone please let me know if there is some basic principle of physics that renders this idea useless.

    If this is possible I would experiment with running the speakers on separate sides or in an X pattern depending on what and where I would want to mic or if I would want to mic at all.

    Any input would be appreciated!
     
  2. sketch

    sketch

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2013
    Location:
    Dalian, China
    I'm no doctor scientist, so I'll give my opinion as derived from my firsthand experience.

    I think the main problem is the open back design, and if you did put a panel on and close the back, the cabs aren't deep enough to sound that good.

    In regards to 50 watts into a 200watt speaker; my experience it sounds fine, you just never get any speaker breakup. Just very clean what's-from-the-amp is reproduced.

    The stock guitar amp would work well set for mid/treble tone, in conjunction with another bass amp set for the lows.
     
  3. john m

    john m Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2006
    Cabinet design is very important--- especially for bass.

    Try out some bass cabs--- buy the one you like.

    Used market is a good way to go.

    I used to bi-amp---I don't anymore. Better sound with a good full range box. (The GK horn thing is good).
     
  4. popgadget

    popgadget

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    Sep 4, 2005
    Location:
    Eastern, PA USA
    Disclosures:
    Authorized Greenboy Designs Builder, Scabbey Road
    I'm not sure what you are asking, but it sounds like "what's the best knife to bring to a gunfight"

    Guitar cabinets generally make dreadful bass cabinets. On the other hand, many bass cabinets can sound great for guitar.
     
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  6. wcriley

    wcriley

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    Location:
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    Uncompensated endorsing user: fEARful
    In a biamped setup, it doesn't matter that the guitar combo (assuming it's for the high side) is open-backed or that the drivers aren't "bass speakers". They'll never see any low frequencies unless the crossover point is set too low.
     
  7. will33

    will33

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    May 22, 2006
    Location:
    austin,tx
    Disclosures:
    Use of this field for any other purpose is prohibited
    +1


    If you're truly biamping the right way ( that term seems to have different meanings for different people ), run the guitar amps as is.

    If you're thinking about turning a guitar combo into a bass combo, don't waste your money. The bass will shred the speakers in an openback cab and if you seal it you'll lose all your low end. Be better off just getting even a budget model actual bass cab.
     
  8. SlingBass4

    SlingBass4 Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2009
    Location:
    Kansas City
    Like ^^^ HE ^^^ says. Both head and cab designs DO make a difference.
     
  9. findthe1

    findthe1

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2013
    Location:
    Vancouver
    Thanks for all the replies guys!

    I did consider the open back/panelling it off. Obviously no matter what I do here, it's a sketchy idea. That being said, I might try it out just to see if I can add a bit of snap or gargle to my tone.

    Of course the main amp in my rig will still be my 400+ through a TC808.
     
  10. christw

    christw Get low!

    Joined:
    May 11, 2008
    Location:
    Dayton OH
    Disclosures:
    Endorsing: J Worrell Bass
    Just run a line/pre out from the Mesa into the input of the Fender combo, turn the bass knob down on the guitar amp, and enjoy!

    Btw, a single 112 valve combo will do everything you need as far as mids and highs go. It'll also have better dispersion. A 112 won't look as badass or weigh as much as a 410 though!

    This is from lots of experience running dual amp rigs for fun. Note these are not bi-amped by frequency so you do need to be cautious about the amount of lows reaching the geetar amp.
     
  11. seang15

    seang15 Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2008
    Location:
    Cary NC
  12. JTE

    JTE Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2008
    Location:
    Central Illinois, USA
    This sounds like the decidedly un-technical way Tom Peterson of Cheap Trick gigged. He used Deluxe Reverbs (single 12" speaker, two 6V6, about 25 watts) by plugging in with a "Y" cord. He simply rolled all the bass off the Deluxes and ran the other side of the Y cord into whatever his bass amp was. It'll work for some grit but it's more gear to schlep and won't really be heard unless your guitar amp is mic'd as well as the main rig.

    John
     
  13. TrevorOfDoom

    TrevorOfDoom

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2007
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    I'm all for trying new things, but I'll echo the thought that a 4x10 guitar amp, especially at 50watts, will nigh over-power your rig, or at least match it too well. You wouldn't need a guitarist anymore.

    a small 1x10 or 1x12 combo at 15 to 30 watts will match much better and add just a hair of grind and such for the tone you want.
     
  14. Ender_rpm

    Ender_rpm

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2004
    Location:
    St. Louis MO
    The SVT210AV cab is nice for this kind of set up. Sometimes just for fun I run my tube head into it on top of my LM2 into a 410. Sounds pretty awesome.
     
  15. Pearly Gator

    Pearly Gator

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2005
    Location:
    SoCal
    +1

    Ladies & gentlemen, the 1959 Fender Bassman w/ Jensen alnico speakers....

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Jeff Scott

    Jeff Scott Don't just TalkBASS - PlayBASS! Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2006
    Location:
    NE Ohio
    Don't forget that you also need to get rid of all that heat the tubes are creating. ;)
     
  17. Jeff Scott

    Jeff Scott Don't just TalkBASS - PlayBASS! Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2006
    Location:
    NE Ohio
    That said, my 1962 Concert Amp sounds amazing good for bass at reasonable volume levels. :bassist:
     
  18. findthe1

    findthe1

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2013
    Location:
    Vancouver
    So today I just went out and rented an SVT 3 Pro and a Traynor Neo 115 to start biamping my rig with.

    Obviously a bit more traditional than a guitar combo, so for now I'm just going to try and let that rig work my lows/subs (one band plays in drop A now) while i use the mesa to punch the mids with the tube growl. still looking out for any cheap fender 410's though. interesting to hear the deluxe reverb coming up though and having that one smaller amp to just add that grind is an attractive concept. I guess I'll have to try playing both to see which works.
     
  19. j-bass-kreep

    j-bass-kreep

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2003
    Location:
    Ensenada , B.C Mexico
    I bought a bassman 59 LTD last december. Absolutely loved the tone. Makes a great practice and indoor gig at reasonable volume amp.I did encounter problems with the stock Jensen p10r speakers (farted out before I could even get power amp grind). I replaced them with Jensen MOD1070s and also switched one of the preamp tubes to a 12ay7 in order to get louder cleans. The open back cab IS a problem especially if when I´m outdoors because you loose a lot of lows. But if its indoors you won't have a lot of issues.

    I bought a line 6 pod live pedal and I am planning on running a bi amp rig this weekend: lows to a GK800rb with an Ampeg svt15en cab and highs to the bassman 59, I´ll report on that. :bassist:
     

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