Discussion in 'Band Management [BG]' started by j-raj, Jan 22, 2014.
Continuation of this thread.
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Thank you j-raj
In! Looking forward to playing for the Lord this Sunday after returning from a business trip and blues gig last weekend.
Thank you j-raj.
I can definitely understand this. I was the "leader, singer, songwriter, primary bass player" for a Christian band from 1972-1975, and it started to become a serious ego-trip for me. I wasn't really able to do a good job of being a bass player for my current church (started 3 years ago) until I let go of the control issues and resolved (with God's help) to be a servant and provide what the worship leader asked me to do. Oddly enough, since that time I've been given almost total freedom to play what seems to fit the songs...
Tonight is a brief acoustic set of, "Cornerstone," and "Forever Reign," God bless-it. 2 or 3 acoustic guitars and a room full of disciples. Ain't that sweet.
I'm not discipling anyone. Christ said, "Go and make disciples." I need to get on the ball, obedience out of love, of course, not for merit or salvation. I was also touched by what Christ said about the Final Judgment in Matthew--
English Standard Version (ESV)
The Final Judgment
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? 39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers,[a] you did it to me.’
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ 44 Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ 45 Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
What do you think? I think I best get off my ass.
@SoVeryTired thanks for the membership #. And yes the name Dave Kraft sounds familiar. But not sure why, having multiple locations, its hard to keep up! Plus the wife and i moved to our inlaws out of town, paying off debt to build!
Keep up the good work guys!
This week's set:
-Made Alive (I think Citizens are affiliated with Mars Hill as well, aren't they?)
-Magnify to the bridge, segueing into 10,000 Reasons
-Fix You (Coldplay tune. Interesting bass stuff. The sermon is on sadness, so the song is fitting because it's so sad.
-Made Alive reprise
Good set, other than Magnify, which is fun to play but forever long and really self-indulgent. Oh well.
I had this same revelation 1 year ago when I turned 40. That I have lived the first half of my life for myself. So I am gonna make sure I live the rest of my life for Jesus.
Joshua 22:5 ESV
Only be very careful to observe the commandment and the law that Moses the servant of the Lord commanded you, to love the Lord your God, and to walk in all his ways and to keep his commandments and to cling to him and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul.”
Hopefully I can get back to that point soon. The new church will be different. Current one is fairly edgy, but the new one is a more-toned down type. The contrast will be a nice change of pace. I'll have some freedom at both though, because neither one is a "play it like recorded version" type. It's been awhile since I've done a mellow church...probably 8 or 9 years.
I think that is something I could stand to learn. I have avoided official leadership in church for years but at this point I kind of know what goes into a functional band/WT and have bunches of expectations. I decided I was not going to run away from leadership recently, but as a result I tend to get frustrated with crappy WT organization and try to take on more authority than I have, simply because I think I (and realistically probably do) know more. That hinders my ability to be a part of a team.
Thanks for your perspective. You've given me something to think about.
I have that same problem too. Lack of organization/laziness in a worship team just kills me inside and I wish I could add input but for now I keep my mouth shut being the new guy and all that.
One way to keep the ego in check in a leadership role is to be led as well (which is probably easier with smaller teams). In terms of roles, we have a worship pastor and a music director (me), and on stage we have a worship leader and an MD (the specific role of directing the band on stage, rather than the more general 'management' role). Everyone that fills one of these roles also serves under someone else on our rota. For example, tonight at rehearsal we have one of our WLs playing acoustic guitar and doing backing vocals, while I'm 'just' playing and our keys player is MD. I think that's a very helpful thing as while there's a clear leader on stage at a point in time, it's in some ways a temporary role from week to week.
I've been in the UK and various Praise and Worship for over 25 years. I've moved around a fair bit due to university, job moves ect. My last church had some bizarre rule about being able to play more than 2 instruments....which was kind of funny because the same guy played bass every sunday (he was pretty good too). There seemed way too many big egos flying about and I was quite happy not to get embroiled in that mess.
After my wife left me, I found that particular church very unsupportive...in fact they pretty much accused me and left me no choice but to move on. I now go to a Brazillian plant church here in Swindon. It's new and very exciting and were very eager to snap up musicians and I get to play bass most Sundays with a mid week practise. The worship is very lively and spirit filled and the people are just so nice. They really seek after God with a pure heart. I've inspired another lad to late up Bass and soon I'll be investing in him, so we can play alternate weeks. So remember to raise up new tallent, it far better for your chuch to grow their musicians than import them
Now that I'm not on my phone, I suppose I can elaborate a little bit. For years I had actively avoided any official title in a church due to being burned by internal politics in the past, but over the last year or two I decided it was probably time to quit that and see where I ended up if I quit digging in my heels. I had always served on the WT, so it seemed like a natural place to lead. But I was not an official leader at either of the churches I attended during that time frame, and both were pretty ramshackle when it came to organization and congregation-centered worship (i.e. considering your audience). I tried to put in suggestions and my input on how things should go, but there was a natural resistance because I was not yet 'tenured' in the church and had not 'paid my dues.' So I became very frustrated in both instances and it prevented me from offering my best instrumentally during the services.
So what I meant was not that I have a huge ego as a leader or anything, as I have yet to really have that title, but that I can sometimes put the cart before the horse and be a bit headstrong, which makes it difficult to just sit and serve on a WT. I think that whole idea of not pressing and just accepting your spot and role is something I need to digest a bit further.
I went through that this week. One of the songs we did last night was the 6/8 Bethel song I WILL EXHALT. During rehearsal, I could see this was going to be a train wreck due the percussionist's timing is questionable, the Keys player is tentative as he's really a guitar player and a very good one at that, the WL leader is just headstrong nazi gotta do it like the cd and the backup singer singing lead is not a leader. Rehearsal was spent trying to get everybody on time with the very sparse intro and I was told not to come in until Verse 2. I've played this song quite a bit and generally love 3/4 6/8 stuff and have no problem with all the offbeat accents in this song. I play along trying to show everybody the feel and keep getting the not yet sermon until the point where he's saying no bass no bass. And then throws the Matrix line no bass. THERE IS NO SPOON on me and the struggle continued for another 45 minutes. It could have easily been solved with letting me play up high through the intro and first verse and drop down with lows for the all in part. No ain't gonna happen. Yesterday mid day I go into a new house we are renovating, and test the appliances and I pop open the dishwasher and what is there? A single SPOON! Oh this opportunity will not pass. SPOON on black granite countertop for a photo and a no words group text. I get 3 texts back with no spoon and then school teacher WL texts me back a link to YouTube and says here is the bass part, check it out, I'm right! I check the YT link and it's a clip from Matrix with the no spoon segment haha very funny. Had me chuckling for 45 minutes after that. Fast forward to the start if worship and I get a look, a nod, and "2nd Verse". I smile! They start, they start again, they struggle, I look over to Pastor and he has the look of pain on his face. I start playing, sound man cranks me, song is rolling and finishes well. After service, I walk over to WL, apologize, tell him sorry, the song was train wrecking exponentially and I could not allow that to continue. He said I know sheepishly. I said this is for God. I love following music to great effect and results because the "pros" do it best but there are times when the limitations of a team need to outweigh a certain format and you need to make consideration and change things to best utilize what talent you have.
And that's the trouble with a lot of churches today. They are so into building churches and not disciples. I'm finding this out in our huddle. We're going through the book "Building A Discipling Culture" from 3DM. Chirst said to go out and make disciple, he'll take care of building His church.
Check out more on this at:
This stuff has been very revealing. (and I'm on the committee to build a new sanctuary )
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