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TUrn direction for RIck 4003 truss nut?

Discussion in 'Hardware, Setup & Repair [BG]' started by OldSchool50, Jan 10, 2014.


  1. OldSchool50

    OldSchool50 OldSchool50 Supporting Member

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    Connecticut
    I've been thinking on this for so long my head has started to hurt.
    What direction should I turn a 2010 Rick 4003 truss nut to raise the strings (increase bow slightly)?

    I've carefully read two reputable sources on this and they seem to give opposite instructions. Maybe I'm looking at the rod/nut from the wrong direction and they are consistent but here's what they say.

    Official Rick Manual: Turn the nut clock- wise to correct an under bow, counterclockwise to straighten an over bow. Continue this until the desired angle of the neck is obtained.

    JOey's Bass NOtes (for recent model 4003): Turning the truss rod adjustment to the right (clockwise) reduces forward bow, no matter which end of the neck the adjustment is located. Turning the truss rod adjustment to the left (counter clockwise) reduces back bow.

    What am I missing or misreading here. These seem to contradict the other.

    So far I"ve been following Joey's instruction but think I"m I may be confused. What I have is a neck with a bit too much bow at the G string and not quite enough at the E. The E-side nut is now almost loose, so any more counterclock turning seems unlikely to increase the bow.

    I've been careful with other instructions, little turns every day.

    Help is appreciated.
     
  2. OldSchool50

    OldSchool50 OldSchool50 Supporting Member

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    OK, after more reading i'm thinking I may not fully understand the terms "Overbow" and "underbow" in the RIck manual.

    I've been thinking that "underbow" means two straight, producing buzzing and requiring clockwise turning. But could underbow actually mean a forward bend, requiring counterclockwise turn?
     
  3. OldSchool50

    OldSchool50 OldSchool50 Supporting Member

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    Anyone have some advice to clear this up?
     
  4. Slowgypsy

    Slowgypsy 4 Fretless Strings Supporting Member

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    I just when on the website and read the official Rickenbacker owners manual.... that's the only one I would trust 100%.

    They term "underbow" to mean a straight neck with less relief. They term "overbow" to mean a neck with a bend in it or more relief. When looking at the truss rod nut... looking from the headstock down the neck... you would turn the nuts clockwise to tighten the truss rod which would add more relief or more "over bow".
     
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  6. JLS

    JLS Supporting Member

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    Emeryville, Ca
    Disclosures:
    I setup & repair guitars & basses
    Official Rick Manual: Turn the nut clock- wise to correct an under bow, counterclockwise to straighten an over bow. Continue this until the desired angle of the neck is obtained.

    "Angle?"

    I'm not even going to view, much less respond to anything Ric-related anymore. They are just too goofy...
     
  7. Hopkins

    Hopkins Supporting Member

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    Location:
    Houston Tx
    Unless Ricks use a truss rod with reverse threads, you should turn the nut to the right to remove relieve, and loosen the nut to the left to add relief
     
  8. NYCbassist

    NYCbassist Supporting Member

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    clockwise will flatten out the neck ie; reduce relief I would go a little tighter on the G string side and then raise the Saddles up just a smidge to get rid of the buzz.
     
  9. Ric5

    Ric5 Supporting Member

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    righty tighty

    lefty loosey

    This applies when you are looking down on a screw or nut.

    Looser makes for front bow / relief

    Tighter makes for back bow.

    Somewhere in the middle is the flat neck.
     
  10. Ric5

    Ric5 Supporting Member

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    In this picture turn down is tight, and turn up is loose.

    [​IMG]
     
  11. Dave W

    Dave W Previously bassgod0dmw Supporting Member

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    Loosen the nut, so turn it (them) counter-clockwise.
     
  12. 62Jazzbass

    62Jazzbass

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    Location:
    Northern Virginia
    Yikes, I really hate the wording on the Rick site, ***? I know how to do this and I got confused. Angle of the neck?!?! You can't adjust the angle of a set neck. They are talking about their own design and bugger up the wording. Sheesh!

    I think understanding the mechanics of it all is key to not screwing it up, regardless of wording on a website.

    When tightening the truss rod(s), you cause them to bow upwards towards the fretboard, flattening out the fretboard, straightening the neck. They are working against the tension of the strings, which are pulling on the neck from both ends causing it to bow down.

    So loosening them lessens this effect, increasing the bow, which will be greatest somewhere near the middle of the neck.

    On a Rick, you want the neck as flat as possible.

    Others might disagree, but after reading that and adjusting mine accordingly, I have been thrilled with the results.

    ImageUploadedByTalkBass1389458787.737235.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

  13. OldSchool50

    OldSchool50 OldSchool50 Supporting Member

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    [[/I]
    \Thanks for all the input. THere seems to be a consensus, (except for the quote above from Slowgypsy), that turning counterclockwise will increase the relief/bow.
    I have in fact tried this, but gotten to the point with the E string-side nut is almost loose. I will let it sit there for a while and see if it adds some relief but it almost feels as if nothing more will happen. IN other words, it's not adding any bow and I can't get a .003 feeler under the string without raising it a bit.

    Now the .002 seems to clear it where it is, but there's buzz on frets 1-5 on the E. So would raising the string at the bridge help the buzzing? Maybe I have the neck set where it should be and it just needs a string height adjustment.
     
  14. Slowgypsy

    Slowgypsy 4 Fretless Strings Supporting Member

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    Amazing... I've done my own setups for decades... I know how to do this and I got totally turned around by the Rick terms! The old phrase is still valid: Righty tighty and lefty loosey.
     
  15. NYCbassist

    NYCbassist Supporting Member

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    This is why I said to tighten the G string nut just a bit and then raise the bridge. Doing so will put a little more "outward" tension on the neck. Hopefully it will pull it just a bit to either flat or a bit of relief. If you need more after a few days then maybe some higher tension strings are in order.
     
  16. 62Jazzbass

    62Jazzbass

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    Assuming there is a problem, could it be an issue with the nut?

    Also, this buzzing, is is a problem when amplified? I judge everything based on how a bass sounds amplified, even better if in the context of a typical playing situation.

    I remember showing up at a session with new Roto 66s on my Rick. When the engineer was getting tones (I was DI to the console) he flipped out, saying "'ll never be able to work with that, we need to raise your action, use another bass, blah blah....."

    He was a very young and inexperienced dude, I told him to just roll with it, I knew all would be well in the context of the mix.

    And......it was.
     
  17. 62Jazzbass

    62Jazzbass

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    And by nut, I mean the thing that hold the strings in place at the end of the fretboard.

    I am puzzled that the E side truss rod has almost no tension (loose nut, on the rod) yet you have a neck that needs more relief.

    Before anything else, forget buzzing, forget string height at certain frets, etc - when tuned at pitch, is your neck nearly straight, or straight?

    Can you post a picture of the E string side, from the vanatagepoint seen in this picture?

    FWIW my Rick is setup like the third image from the top.

    ImageUploadedByTalkBass1389495806.332104.jpg
     
  18. OldSchool50

    OldSchool50 OldSchool50 Supporting Member

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    I will take a few photos and hope to capture the neck properly and post them in a little while

    I think what I'm seeing when I put a straight edge on the neck is a backbow in the middle of the neck, where I'm checking the clearance.
    I've raised the bridge on both sides, which reduced the buzzing for the most part, but really raised the action.

    I also read that a heavier gauge string might help add some relieve. It came with mediums I think, probably 100 E string. I've got some heavier rotosound that I had planned to put on so this look like a good time. I'll see if that helps.
     
  19. OldSchool50

    OldSchool50 OldSchool50 Supporting Member

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    Update: I put the heavier Rotosound strings on and saw some slight relief almost immediately. And the nut on the truss didn't seem so loose. So I am letting it settle with the new strings for a day and will report back. But this seems encouraging.


    For 62JazzBass, here are some photos that show the neck and strings.(after I installed the new ones).

    FIrst shows the whole neck (lying flat, neck resting on tuners),

    THen the same shot in two sections. Hope this shows something.

    THanks. I'll report back tomorrow.
     

    Attached Files:

  20. OldSchool50

    OldSchool50 OldSchool50 Supporting Member

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    Here's the final shot
     

    Attached Files:

  21. Ric5

    Ric5 Supporting Member

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    That is too much relief
     

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