Vibrato lesson on YouTube

Discussion in 'Orchestral Technique [DB]' started by TonyD, Nov 2, 2012.


  1. TonyD

    TonyD

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    ok - it's on a chello, but I certainly like this method and it's useful for double bass. I like it better than the traditional "turning a door knob" or "drinking a glass of water" way of doing vibrato, I have been studying:



    what do you think?
     
  2. Basscat125

    Basscat125

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    I think It's very good??
    Do any of the more senior players think this is a good explanation?
     
  3. David Potts

    David Potts

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    I might be a "senior" player - began lessons on bass in 1963 and still learning!!!

    In your cello example the player's wrist is often bent back and his vibrato is often jerky, not even and round. It would lend itself towards "twisting the door knob", a so-called wrist vibrato (or twisting of the two bones, the radius and ulna). I think there is perhaps a better description of cello vibrato if you look up Cellobello on Youtube. This is closer to how I see bass vibrato IMO.

    Because of the differences in size and seating positions the bass neck is more away from our neck than for cello. Also there are big differences in string lengths and neck thicknesses that our hand/ arm relationships reflect. We need to move (roll the fingertip) a greater distance to produce the same width of vibrato as the cello.

    I would prefer a straighter but still relaxed and flexible wrist to encourage more forearm roll. For a fuller description of my approach to bass vibrato look at my last posting in my thread "Vibrato - a new insight," in the Double Bass Pedagogy forum.

    Cheers,

    DP
     
  4. TonyD

    TonyD

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    Yes - I did read your thread many times. It surely helps me to get into the right direction. But I am looking for a good instruction video on YouTube on vibrato. I know Klinghoffer's video (Vibratissimo), but I like the video above because of its simplicity and its metaphor with the piece of paper.
     
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  6. Basscat125

    Basscat125

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    no Offense ment with senior Davaid :)
    Thanks, for your insight and I see what your saying.
    I will look at thread soon..

    BC
     
  7. TonyD

    TonyD

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  8. Badener

    Badener

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  9. TonyD

    TonyD

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    Yes I know Michael Klinghoffer's instruction.

    The difference with Klingerhoffers approach (your link) and that of John Stuart (my link) is that the John is explaining the 2 motions (polish the strings + wrist rotation), wheres Michael Klinghoffer is demonstrating only one (polish the strings = 'shifting').

    Which one should I follow?
     
  10. David Potts

    David Potts

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    If the aim of vibrato is to add something positive, a singing quality, to an already good bowed sound it should not matter how it is produced so long as the fleshy pads on your fingertips shorten and lengthen the vibrating string in a particular way (that copies the human singing voice?)

    You can twist your radius and ulna (wrist vibrato), only move your hand parallel to the neck ( with no roll and no twist), or roll using your forearm. Each will produce a vibrato but can you make each one sing convincingly? IMO the relatively relaxed and springy rolling forearm vibrato fits in best with the rest of my LH technique, especially before and after shifting.

    I like the use of sliding a piece of paper as a teaching aid but Klinghoffer is standing and his wrist is very pronated whereas Stuart is seated with his wrist pulled back in the examples above. Both will rob the hand and fingers of strength, flexibility and mobility IMO. I try to keep my wrist relatively flat so that there is a natural flow of shape from my elbow to my fingertips. I sit for most of my playing and only on the E string does my wrist pronate, but not a lot.

    Alberto Bociini's LH approach (see him on Youtube as soloist or in Bass Gang) is IMO a good example to follow.

    Cheers,

    DP
     
  11. TonyD

    TonyD

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    David, am I correct then that the second motion ('drinking a beverage' up from the third minute in the vid) as shown by John Stuart in



    only talk about the first motion, they actually disapprove with second motion.

    I understand that there are many ways of teaching vibrato. Personally I believe that the second motion is a preparation to the first motion. You can build up the speed and it encourages wrist flexibility. But the leading motion should be polishing the fingerboard, - the piece of paper exercise.

    Do you agree?

    Thanks for your thoughts - much appreciated!
     
  12. David Potts

    David Potts

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    I feel that John Stuart's video gives some mixed messages between what he says and what he does, particularly as his vibrato speeds up around the 4 minute mark - his left forearm stops rolling and contracts towards the rotation of radius and ulna- "twisting the doorknob" - that I try to avoid.

    Start with the gentle "rubbing the paper" using middle (2nd) finger pointing across the neck, no thumb touching the back of the neck and only smallish distance moved. There is no or very little friction that will cause your finger to bend/twist sideways or the fleshy tip to roll as your hand moves parallel? Take away the paper and repeat - the fingertip wobbles sideways because of the extra friction and the flesh adds to this by rolling around the bone.

    Now stand your wrist up a little higher than flat and press down a little more firmly on your finger tip. Instead of your hand just moving parallel to the string you will start to see and feel it roll. Then gently add in the thumb on the back of the neck close to opposite the finger and you will feel the forearm added to the rolling motion so that the wrist and forearm operate as one rolling (not twisting) unit. Keep your wrist relaxed and throw your hand gently towards the bridge and let it rebound.

    All this experimenting can be done silently using your right forearm held diagonally in front of your chest like a dummy neck. Then apply it to around C on the G string (in the middle
    of the bass neck). Keep everything springy as you gradually reach normal finger and thumb pressures. Adjusting the height of your left elbow will make the rolling vibrato easier or harder. I find the height by lifting my arm as naturally as possible from hanging relaxed by my side into playing position (where all my fingers fall nicely on the string).

    Once you have found the feeling that I am trying to describe then add in the bow and sound. You will wonder why it took so many words to describe it!!!

    Cheers,
    DP
     
  13. angelika

    angelika

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    Was M. Klingerhoffer Guy Tuneh's double bass teacher?
     
  14. TonyD

    TonyD

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    No I don't think so. But Klinghoffer gave lessons to Avishai Cohen
     
  15. angelika

    angelika

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    I wondered how far can an apple falling from its tree, Tuneh was his bass pupil
    (according to Michael Klinghoffer's web site:
    http://www.driveadoublebass.com/students-past-and-present )
    Cool, both have a quite different way of playing bass but still its nice to see the way how Tuneh was developed on his direction.
    P. S. - Tuneh uses Vibrato from different kind, his one is more like out of the "finger position",
    i think he also uses it according to his bow speed...
     

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