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WinISD / Cabinet experts

Discussion in 'Amps [BG]' started by Dark Horse, Feb 12, 2014.

  1. Dark Horse

    Dark Horse

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    Quickly, a brief background : I'm currently using a Eden WXT500 head through a Euphonic VL110 cabinet. It's an 8 ohm, 250 watt cab that houses 10"and 5 1/4" speakers, as well as a tweeter. Anyway, my thought is to add another cab that fits underneath it, and a single 12" seemed a likely cabinet given the space requirements, and the fact that I'd like a bit more low end and to move more air. Unfortunately, my funds are limited...but I do have quite a bit of experience building guitars, basic furniture, etc...so I'm not worried about construction. What I *am* worried about is making the best cabinet for my chosen driver.

    The driver: Since I'm cash poor, I had to find a good bang for the buck driver that could push some low end. The Dayton PA310 is talked about as being just such a beast ! :) So ...speaker specs are here... http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-pa310-8-12-pro-woofer--295-032



    The cabinet: What I'm thinking of building is a 17.5"W x 14"H x 14.5"D cabinet. Building with 1/2" birch play for everything but the baffle, which would be 3/4", that should give a box volume of around 1.6 cubic feet. I plan on using two 3"D x 6.5"L ports, which should give it a box tuning of around 56hZ...and reduce internal volume to about 1.5 cubic feet.

    If I'm figuring everything correctly, the plots below "should" be correct, though I make zero claims at knowing about speaker cabinet design.

    Anyway, I was wondering if you see any pitfalls in the design, and/or if you have any suggestions to make it better. Please keep in mind that my funds are extremely limited, so I can't go out and buy a fEARFUL or whatever...I have to maximize what I have, given my financial situation. (Plus I like the option of using the VL110 separately for coffee house and low volume gigs)

    Thank you so much for any help you can provide !

    :)

    Attached Files:

  2. Eric_Allard

    Eric_Allard

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    I'm no expert either, but I just ran that volume/driver/tuning and it appears to be a reasonable arrangement for that driver (F3 is approoximately 59 Hz) . In my experience, the main thing to consider in bass cabinet design is cone displacement (which is a little over 4 mm at the port resonance for this combination) and sensitivity matching. Try to match the sensitivity of your existing cab as closely as possible (within 1-2 dB) or one will drown out the other.
    Eric
  3. Dark Horse

    Dark Horse

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    Good to note...thanks !

    IIRC, the EA VL110 isn't a super efficient cabinet, so hopefully this 112 cab I'm thinking of building will be in the same ballpark.
  4. Dark Horse

    Dark Horse

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    A little "bump" to the top for some help :)
  5. Mr. Foxen

    Mr. Foxen

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    Hard to tell if the output from the new cab will be in phase with the cab you have. Best is figure the driver in the cab you have, and close the box, minus the midrange driver. If you can figure the crossover in there, you might be able to increase the mid output to better match two woofers.
  6. Dark Horse

    Dark Horse

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    First, thanks for taking the time to reply, and for your thoughts...

    Well, the problem there is that the specs for the drivers in the EA cab aren't available. I've done a bunch of digging, and only found a few incomplete specs for it. :(

    Right now, with just the VL110 I keep the midrange driver dialed back to about half (it, and the tweeter, have separate attenuators) and the tweeter about 1/4, of off ...depending on the bass.

    At this point I guess my option is

    1) Build it and find out if it works well together, or...
    2) Be satisfied with the VL110, even though it's only suitable for small gig work.
  7. AstroSonic

    AstroSonic Supporting Member

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    That design will work, but it leaves the driver unloaded for the lowest 4 string notes. A driver unloaded in the deep bass can easily be blown due to over excursion. Going with 2 cf and Fb = 48 Hz will load the driver to 40 Hz. The cab volume increase brings the response up to nearly flat, with an F3 of 51 Hz.

    How the cabs will blend with respect to tone will not be known until they are played. Matching sensitivity of the cabs is a good idea IF you want to divide power equally between them. That is sometimes desirable, sometimes not. Knowing little about your 10 inch 3 way cab not much more can be said. If your amp has flexible EQ you can likely manage a pretty usable sound.
  8. Dark Horse

    Dark Horse

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    Thanks...this is what I was hoping to find...some advice on making it a better cab :)
  9. AstroSonic

    AstroSonic Supporting Member

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    If you are currently dialing back the mid and tweeter that much, you will most likely be able to dial in enough mid and Hf to make up for the additional woofer. The Dayton driver is a great value and an excellent driver in its own right. You won't be disappointed.
  10. Dark Horse

    Dark Horse

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    OK, that would put us with the following curves...

    Attached Files:

  11. Dark Horse

    Dark Horse

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    Awesome ...thanks for the info !
  12. Eric_Allard

    Eric_Allard

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    In my experience, this shouldn't be too much of a problem with a four-string bass. The power handling does decrease rapidly below the port tuning frequency due to driver excursion, but one thing people forget is that is that we aren't feeding these things pure sine waves; even with dead old flatwound strings, the fundamental makes up less than half of the total signal.
  13. will33

    will33

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    Use AstroSonic's alignment, it's a very good one for that driver, and no doubt will add some "oomph" to your 110.

    As said, you won't really no how they blend until you're done. If you're dialing back the mid now, should be able to make something good out of it. That Dayton is a nice, beefy driver.


    Also, I got some TB message a while back that might've been from you but I'm not sure, wasn't a regular PM. I tried responding to what I thought was the email address but it got kicked back as undeliverable or something. Don't know what that was about, might've been a phone glitch on my end. If it's something private, try sending again. If it's cab design stuff, it's better to leave it here so others can learn from it, get ideas, etc.
  14. Dark Horse

    Dark Horse

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    Thank you so much guys...I REALLY appreciate your help, and your sharing of knowledge.... it means a ton to me !

    Will... can't remember if it was me, but I was probably just saying "hello", since we're both in Austin !
  15. Dark Horse

    Dark Horse

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    Ok ... I think I'm settled on a cab that measures 17.5 x 19.5 x 14.5 ...two 3" ports that are 6" long .... building from 3/4 birch ply all around...

    Sound about right ?
  16. will33

    will33

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    Sounds good, although you could ligjten it up by using 1/2" ply and more involved bracing scheme. That depends on how important the finished product physical weight is to you and how much carpentering you want to do. It's a smallish cab, so, using a little heavier material if it makes things easier isn't going to kill ya.

    Can start with those port lengths, but use the "rice on the cone/passing test tones", as well as just playing your usual style and using your ears to zero in on final tuning.

    And yeah, I think it was a "where do you play around here" sort of message. Our cover band does typical bar band stuff. There's a place out in Roundtop called the Stone Cellar we're at roughly once a month April through October (outdoors). Just starting to book up the calendar. We're all weekend warriors with dayjobs, so a "full calendar" means 2-3 gigs a month. :)
  17. Dark Horse

    Dark Horse

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    Yeah, my original plan was to use 1/2 for everything but the baffle, but I figured ..

    A) It's a small cab, so weight should still be ok, and ...
    B) It's cheaper to just buy one sheet of 3/4 ply... plus I can make 2 full cabs from one sheet. If I were doing 1/2 and 3/4 I'd have extra costs involved, and I just don't have the cash to spare :)


    I might buy some telescoping ports instead of using PVC for that reason..seems like the ports are inexpensive enough. Then glue them when I find the right length.

    Sound ok ?



    Cool man ..I gig a ton, but I'll keep a watch out...what's the bands name ? Also, be sure to let me know when you're gigs are in case I miss them. :) It'd be great to grab a beer sometime...
  18. will33

    will33

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    The port thing sounds good.

    Band is called "Party Foul", thoigh we don't have a webpage or anything. We've only played in town like twice in 2 years. Not getting rich or anything, but we can bring home more dough playing an hour - hour and a half drive out of town. It just means the difference between getting home with $100 or a little more after gas as opposed to $50 before expenses. :D

    Typical barband classic rock, etc. Stuff you've heard a million times.
  19. Dark Horse

    Dark Horse

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    Yep...gotta leave Austin to make any money ! :)

    Cool man...the classics are "classic" for a reason !
  20. Dark Horse

    Dark Horse

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    Cut list :

    (2) 17.5 x 14.5 .... TOP & BOTTOM
    (2) 18 x 14.5 ....SIDES
    (2) 18 x 16 ....BACK &BAFFLE

    Pretty sure that's right...

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