Like a lot of bands out there, we haven't had very good luck with vocalists. We have been using a couple subs while searching for a new one, and recently we just decided to retool and move on as a trio. The subs we have been using have been very helpful in fulfilling our obligations while we restructure and are very easy to work with. My question is in regards to what you or your band requires of a sub beyond the performance. When I have worked as a sub I typically offer to help move equipment, set up a PA, etc. Sometimes the offer is taken, sometimes it isn't. But with our subs I have not asked them to do anything other than show up, bring their own personal stuff, perform, get paid, leave. The three of us handle transport, setup, breakdown, etc. The sub gets paid as if they were an equal member of the band. This has allowed us to form a good relationship with a couple people who will jump in at a moment's notice, and have. Now, I am not the BL; being that there is only three of us there really isn't one. Guitarist picks music, his wife books for us, I deal with personnel (lining up subs and such if we need them, etc....). Drummer is....well....a drummer..... This irks our drummer to no end. He feels that if the person is being paid like a member of the band, they should have to work just like a member of the band. Show up early, set up, stay for breakdown, etc. My feeling is that a sub is just that, not a full member of the group, and I don't feel it should be required of them to do more than perform or transport their own personal equipment. He argues that we should pay them less, I argue that for what we pay them (usually $90-100 a night, depending on the job), they may not do it if we look for more out of them. Tempers never flare, it's just a discussion that we've had over the last couple months. How does your band treat subs, and if you haven't used them, what would your expectation be if you did?