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00Funk vs Groove Regulator

Discussion in 'Effects [BG]' started by Jared Lash, Oct 17, 2009.


  1. Jared Lash

    Jared Lash Born under punches

    Aug 21, 2006
    Denver, CO
    So among my recent purchases was a Groove Regulator from the classifieds. I've tried one before, but just for a short time and never really A/B'd it with the Chunk 00Funk Mk II so I thought I would give it a whirl.

    filters.

    The best way to compare them is by using a cheesy metaphor.

    The Groove Regulator is the kid that every mother loves. Dependable, always polite and well behaved.

    The 00Funk is messy, loud and impulsive kid that drives his parents nuts but is just charming enough to get away with it.

    In actual filter terms:

    Both have a similar basic filter character. Setting the 00Funk to sound like the GR (Smoothness a bit past noon, Squelch around 9 o'clock - GR set as in the picture) they both are very modern and (for lack of a better term) "hi-fi" sounding. Still, they are a bit different. The 00Funk has a tone somewhere between the GR's hi and low range and the Groove Regulator has a slightly smoother sound even at this setting. Both can also be set to give a big, fat tone rather than a quacky one if desired, though the GR does it without nearly as big a volume boost.

    The 3Leaf is warm and smooth, but not super wet. It sounds great on pretty much every setting, lets your actual tone through and doesn't have volume spikes. It is MUCH more plug and play than the Chunk. The flipside to sounding great on nearly every setting is that it doesn't have the range of sounds the Chunk does nor can it get anywhere near as crazy/extreme sounding.

    The 00Funk is a wilder pedal. As noted, it can cop a reasonable imitation of the 3Leaf, but it does a lot more. The wettest the Groove Regulator gets (I always have the Intensity dimed) is one of the mildest settings the 00Funk can be set to. It has some wild sounds, but they also come with sizable volume spikes. Like most EHX pedals, the Chunk can get some extreme sounds. Cranking the Squelch gets super squirty tones and in the down mode you have to be careful with where you set the sweep or a hard pluck will close the filter completely with a resounding "whomp".

    And as noted previously, minor changes to a knob can create large changes in tone and rolling the Pitch or Sweep knob too far means no filter sounds at all. I rarely move the pitch knob from minimum and depending on the bass I usually have the sweep set somewhere between 9 o'clock and noon but never further.

    I'm not sure which one I'll keep longterm (maybe both) but I need to gig with the 3Leaf before I decide. We have a big show next weekend so that should be a good test. The GR reminds me of the EMMA but with a fatter character. I loved the tone of the DiscoBob but it wasn't noticeable enough in a mix for me. We'll see if the Groove Regulator fares any better. The Chunk always cuts through, but is tougher to tweak on the fly.
     
  2. Jared Lash

    Jared Lash Born under punches

    Aug 21, 2006
    Denver, CO
    By the way, I didn't make clips because I've got 00Funk clips in the Wiki and there are plenty of GR clips floating around.

    But if people think it would be helpful, I could do some clips of each for comparison.
     
  3. chicago_mike

    chicago_mike

    Oct 9, 2007
    Chicago - LA - Rome - Dallas
    Endorsing Artist : Genz Benz
    well you are comparing 2 different filter types , just a fyi. 00FUNK is an OTA based filter and the GR is an Optical LED / LDR filter. Yes the response and feel will be different. Thats why I am building both types. They have their own charm wich you describe pretty acurately.
     
  4. chicago_mike

    chicago_mike

    Oct 9, 2007
    Chicago - LA - Rome - Dallas
    Endorsing Artist : Genz Benz
    Snow White is also OTA based. Synth filters are mostly OTA. Mutron, meatball, GR, Meatgrinder, and a couple others are vactrol / led-ldr. So whats the difference? The OTA responds quicker. THe MXR is kind of ota..it uses switches in a sense to trigger the filtering. THis results in a uick response as well. Opamp is the cheapest way to go...using tl072's and such, and the produce the least exciting of the filter sounds..the bassballs and dr.q are opamp based.
     
  5. Jared Lash

    Jared Lash Born under punches

    Aug 21, 2006
    Denver, CO
    Interesting. Knowing very little about how effect design and just going on how similar they can sound, I would have assumed they were the same type of circuit with the 00Funk just being more extreme.

    I have a third low pass only filter at the moment in the Moog (I've also got an original FX25 which I believe is bandpass) - what type of circuit does the Moogerfooger have?

    As a straight filter it sounds very different than either the 3Leaf or Chunk, though if pressed I'd say it's closer in sound to the 00Funk.
     
  6. Unrepresented

    Unrepresented Something Borderline Offensive

    Jul 1, 2006
    San Diego, CA
    While I haven't spent a lot of time with either pedal, that was actually one of the first mental comparisons I came to when trying out the GR.
     
  7. chicago_mike

    chicago_mike

    Oct 9, 2007
    Chicago - LA - Rome - Dallas
    Endorsing Artist : Genz Benz
    Im guessing the moog is ota. Because I had to repair the ringmod an that was ota..

    You can use the same ota chip for a filter, phaser, ringmod, and quiteliterally in the same circuit, you could have switches to turn certain parts on or off. Expensive to do with all the extra parts and footswitches, but can be done.

    MXR / DODFX25 / Emma all use the cd4069 chip. you can think of it as a switch...a fancy shmancy switch, but a switch nonetheless. This is closer to the OTA's in sound.



    best way I can describe the sound differences. a Mutron or clone doesnt Quack as hard..its more a gargle...

    The band Orgone the CD The Killion FLor the song : Prism break....thats LED/LDR (Mutron) based filtering. An OTA would sound synthier. Not bad, just synthier. That "Paper" sound.
     
  8. fightthepower

    fightthepower

    Jan 7, 2008
    San Diego
    That makes sense, because the FX25 has the 'Paper' sound when the filter does a long sweep; its this quality that reminds me of some filters that I would assume are OTA based, like the Photron and Prometheus.

    I've never heard the term 'paper sound', but it makes sense and I know exactly what you're talking about; I always thought to myself that some filters had a whispy, or airy quality to them in some settings, and those are generally the ones I like best. (one exception would be the Electrix filters, which I thought sounded good for the most part, but the airy paper sound on the upper end of the filter was a bit much and not quite to my liking in the clips Ive heard). It seems like the paper sound is most evident when an envelope filter sweeps 'too high'/past the point of the input signals highest frequency-- would this make sense for any reason in particular?

    The Moog and Photron (MS-20 filter clone) both have it, and with the Photron in particular, you can 'accentuate' it by lowering the Input gain and using the Output gain to make up.. the lower the Input gain, the more prevalent the paper sound is throughout the sweep. The Photron also has a very fast attack, and is unable to do slower, delayed envelope sweeps like my Meatball clone, its envelope is more like an FX25. Im guessing the Prometheus is probably OTA based as well as it has the fast response and paper sound in some settings(closer to the photron than the Moog). The Prometheus is also reminiscent of the Snow White from the clips I've heard.

    Some good info in this thread, thanks for sharing BigO and Chicago-mike.
     
  9. chicago_mike

    chicago_mike

    Oct 9, 2007
    Chicago - LA - Rome - Dallas
    Endorsing Artist : Genz Benz
    I know I never heard "paper" sound before...but it just came out trying to describe them... seems to fit.

    This is good info for all filter users to have because if you play in a portishead type band you might want a synthier filter, and if you do a bootsy or 70's funk show..then you want the other filter type. having both really does help and make sense. You can always change your pedal board for what style of show.
     
  10. jucas

    jucas

    Dec 14, 2003
    Alberta
    Just a nitpicky detail for fun... I'm pretty sure the FX25 is OTA based.
     
  11. chicago_mike

    chicago_mike

    Oct 9, 2007
    Chicago - LA - Rome - Dallas
    Endorsing Artist : Genz Benz
    IWO if DOD changed the topology. Because I swear its gotta be a cd4066/4069...

    if it IS ota, then were talking a ca3080 / lm13600 ...great..now I gotta go find a schematic....dang nabbit!!!!

    and then you have the boyc type sites where some of the dod clones use a vactrol....

    Im a geek.

    well......it uses an lm13600......yeah..im a dumb geek.
     
  12. jucas

    jucas

    Dec 14, 2003
    Alberta
    Yeah, mine's got ca3094's in it. I traced it, but its on paper and pretty messy... there's a couple other schematics out there that are close enough to call the same (eg... different power filter caps, different pot tapers or values. nothing too far off)

    This guy has a version with an LM 13600 (a diy site I really like... well documented projects and whatnot)

    I have one on breadboard but i've been too busy to debug it lately. I'd love to get it working as a lowpass filter too.
     
  13. chicago_mike

    chicago_mike

    Oct 9, 2007
    Chicago - LA - Rome - Dallas
    Endorsing Artist : Genz Benz
    http://www.geofex.com/ search technology of Filters. Its fairly basic but its accurate.

    theres a low pass filter and also if you search for circuits of the CA3280, youll see some low pass filters that you can use with the ca3080.

    I have the 3280's 13700's and I think even a few 3080's / 94's wich those are going into a colorsound dipthonizer clone.

    So when do we geeks take over the world?
     
  14. Funkinthetrunk

    Funkinthetrunk Registered User Supporting Member

    I wish I was a dumb geek like you.
     
  15. chicago_mike

    chicago_mike

    Oct 9, 2007
    Chicago - LA - Rome - Dallas
    Endorsing Artist : Genz Benz
    and balding...did I mention balding?
     
  16. jetofuj

    jetofuj

    Jun 16, 2008
    PL
    Any new comments on this subject guys? Maybe you can also add Subdecay to the batch?
     
  17. Swift713

    Swift713

    Dec 4, 2006
    Florence, Ma
    This is interesting stuff, not that I can follow all the technical details. I'd love to see a run down of various filters separating them into two (or more) camps.
    I had a Q-tron for quite a while and I just got an MXR Auto Q. They seem to follow those two basic descriptions. The Q-tron had it's own inherent color and was less tame while the Auto Q is more "transparent" and tweakable and capable of subtlety. I think I like the tone and response of the Q-tron better but I like the ability to dial back the Auto Q.
     
  18. Bryan R. Tyler

    Bryan R. Tyler TalkBass: Usurping My Practice Time Since 2002 Staff Member Administrator Gold Supporting Member

    May 3, 2002
    Connecticut
    Reminds me of my comparison between the GR and the Qtron+ XO, except the 00Funk sounds even more resonant than the Qtron. Have you tried the Funk-A-Duck yet, Jared? That one's supposed to have extreme spikes....I'm curious as to how similar it is to the 00Funk.
     
  19. Jared Lash

    Jared Lash Born under punches

    Aug 21, 2006
    Denver, CO
    The Q-tron (at least the big box one I had - never owned the Qtron+ XO) is more classic sounding and "chewy" than the 00Funk which has a very synthy character. But yes, they are both very wet in their own ways and wilder with bigger spikes than the 3Leaf.

    And yes, I briefly had a Funk-A-Duck. It was the most speaker shredding, hard to contain filter I've ever owned. Frostwave will tell you that it's not even really designed to be used with bass. Some very wild tones to be had, but just too hard to control/tweak properly to be useful IMO.

    Character wise I think the 00Funk is a good reference point for it, but I owned them many months apart so it's hard to A/B from memory.
     
  20. markjazzbassist

    markjazzbassist Supporting Member

    Apr 19, 2005
    Cleveland, OH
    i'm interested that the GR doesn't get very wet. i've owned a couple meatballs and they were SUPER wet. not synthy wet, but bubbly wet and very wet at that. he must have tamed the intensity down some.

    here's how i see it

    mutron iii (vintage) - classic wet, thick, filter tone that all are judged by. listen to bootsy (it's not the exact same due to his rig) but that's the basic concept and tone. kinda a one note thing though, you can change the tone, but it's not super versatile. doesn't pair well with other pedals. the non-AC attached cord versions sound best.
    moog - can get very similar to the mutron and chunk, extremely versatile. suble tones to very wet mutron like tones to mild electronica type tones. lots in here. pairs well with other pedals.
    meatball - the most versatile, wet, bubbly (not synthy), so many tones in this box. very touchy (you move a knob a little and it changes it a lot). the down filter can do some REALLY cool sub bass swells and such. pairs well with other pedals.
    chunk - synthy (more so than all the rest), wet, versatile. pairs well with other pedals (especially the brown dog). wet in the sense of a synth, not meatball wet.
    qtron - hard to tame, a mutron clone that doesn't have the "it" tone, but it's a great cheap alternative. the volume spikes are more prevalent with this unit for some reason.
    emma - subtle, subtle, subtle. great tone (mutronesque) but it sounds like it's not a wet blend (100% effect). it sounds like 50/50 or less which is why it's subtle.
    ehx zipper (vintage) - not as wet as the mutron, but very great tone and sounds like a less wet mutron. great for someone who wants a nice thick filter tone that's not synthy or bootsy wet. not versatile.
    ehx tube zipper - similar to a qtron with some wild trill effects and such. for the filter fanatic who wants wild outrageous type sounds. i didn't find it to be that useful.

    bassballs - different type of filter. with distortion (onboard) i can get great synth bass (pfunk flashlight) type tones, and without it i can get some very nice subtle filter effects. doesn't pair well with others.
    dr. q - doesn't sound that great on bass IMHO. understated. didn't find this useable at all (nano, vintage, regular, i owned all 3)
    mutron V (vintage) - sounds very similar to the dodfx25, it's a different type of filter than the classic mutron. the volume spikes are prevalent and tough to deal with.
    dod fx25 - different type of filter than these, it sounds extrememly similar to the small mutron (mutron V). same volume spikes issues.
     

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